Running Line Preferences?

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by HauntedByWaters, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. bhudda heffe'

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    varvas period!!!! its the lightsaber for jedi's
  2. Jergens AKA Joe Willauer

    Posts: 2,141
    Twin Bridges, MT
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    what if you're more of a chewbacka of the spey world?
  3. SPEYBUM Member

    Posts: 271
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    Running Line
    Here I go again start for a few word and write a book.
    The choice of running lines comes down to four; Braided mono or Polyurethane, Dacron core, mono core and mono.
    Each of the types of line has a very loyal following.
    The Dacron core lines have a coating of either PVC and/or Polyurethane.
    These have been the choice for most people and many new finishes have helped improve the shoot ability and keep them tangle free.
    Braided running lines are made of mono or Polyurethane.
    These lines are just strong and noisey but they do not wear fast.
    These lines out last most other running line.
    The Mono core line also has a coating of either PVC and/or Polyurethane.
    These are gaining popularity with new finishes help to improve the shoot and keep them tangle free.
    Mono in all of its shapes, sizes and finishes is the number one lines for many people do to the fact it’s very inexpensive and shoots with ease.
    I have a number of different lines that I use with my demo reels and have not found any one to be the cure all for everything.
    Running lines have some inherit faults do to the fact of how they are built.
    One of them is wear caused by many factors but one biggest is the fact they flatten out when the power is applied during the casting stroke (as do all fly lines)
    The flattening out (folding) comes from that fact that you have no inherit hoop strength do to the flexibility of the line. This folding is much like bending a soda straw until it kinks. You have forced all the bending motion to the side or flatten edged of the straw (same thing as over loading your SPEY rod or fly rod). This folding will in time cause micro fractures in the outside radius of the bend (just the same as the power fibers of fly rod) and cause a crack in the coating. We can improve the hoop strength but without sacrificing the flexibility of the line.
    This wear point is usually at the tip over hang point and it a simple matter of cutting it off and making a new loop.
    Let us look at the flexibility of line and why we need to strive to keep it flexible.
    The flexibility helps in the shoot and also keeps the line from tangling.
    The birds nest at the stripping eye will drive you to distraction and every one blames the construction of the line.
    Could it be something else?
    Let us look at How we handle the line and how it is stored (the reel).
    Poor line handling is the number one cause of birds nests not the construction of the line.
    Here are a couple of tricks I learned years ago from very good salt water fly caster who used nothing but cheap15lb test mono.
    When you strip in the line strip it through your fingers.
    This will take the micro kinks out of the line.
    Second make large strips, flake the line downstream of casting target line (if the current will allow) and take a step back when you are done stripping.
    The Europeans have been using shooting line for more years than most.
    They made one very big discovery quite a few years ago and that was Larger the storage area of the line the bigger the coil set (coil set is the inherent memory that is put into the line do to drying , heat , cold tension and the Circumference of the reel spool).

    Competition casters for years would have the line stored on large wooden hoops and put it on the reel at the event.
    Some contest casters put a reel with no line on the rod and cast with line flaked out onto the grass off the hoop.
    All of these casters would stretch the line during the primary set up time.
    So what can I do?
    Stretch the line through your fingers when you are taking the line off the reel.
    Make large strips through the fingers when retreivaing the fly.
    Watch where you strip the line making sure it will not impede the shoot.

    I have been doing work with mono running lines for my Intermediate students and have come up with one fact concerning all running lines
    To put is nicely Americans are in love with reel that we designed for silk running lines.
    I started working with two Mega Arbor reels.
    One thanks to Castaway Flyshop is the Opti Mega Loop 5.25 inch Diameter spool with a Circumference 16.50 inches and the other thanks to Carmon Galvin is the Galvin Torque 16 with a 5.50 inch Diameter spool with a Circumference of 17.25 inches.
    Both of these reels are on the Try Rack and are being used weekly and I must say watching the line streak out from them without tangles is a joy.
  4. Big K1 Large Member

    Posts: 538
    Duvall, WA, U.S.A.
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    Guideline and Varivas is what I use.:thumb:
  5. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,827
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    Aaron, could you give me a more details please? I don't get it.:rofl::rofl:eek:h godicantbreathe
    ...actually, I always read your posts with great interest and respect your wisdom very much.

    what I do with your posts sometimes is copy to a word document, print it, and then sip irish whiskey on my back porch and read it in a leisurely manner...the way all great teachings are accomplished.
    tight lines, Bob
  6. k2flyfisher its taco time. wheres the sauce?

    Posts: 408
    Portland, OR
    Ratings: +3 / 0
    30lb amnesia. i used to use the ridge runner 30 until i counted the number of times it either tangled or slipped and they came out to be about the same. the coating tends to harden up and shoot better in colder water, so overall no complaints, but the amnesia shoots further, faster and quieter. also have sa's monocore .034 shooting line for the big stick (14' 9wt t&t w/ 720c/s + 5ft int cheater). just easier to hold on to with all those grains and gets the fck out of dodge- its the same running line that their streamer express lines use. the best part about amnesia though? two 100' lines for 5 bucks. sold.
  7. MasterAnglerTaylor Member

    Posts: 749
    Poulsbo/Pullman, WA
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    Do you guys just use loop to loop for running line to the head or do you do away with the loop and knot it together?
  8. SPEYBUM Member

    Posts: 271
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    I have chosen a unspecific course for this post for a reason.
    I felt that it far better to listen to what you and the rest of the board has to say.
    Rather than me giving specific report on any one brand.
    I am Religiously Neutral in matters like this.
    Which line so I use on the Try
    Rio Powerflex .30
    Airfo Ridge line .30 and .20
    Guideline GL, LRL and DC
    Orvis forget which ones
    30 lb Mono
    You now know why I do not state a Preference!
    I try to use the lines by those companies who support my project and let participates tell me what they prefer.
    If I keep going using the lines of the TryRack for Saturday On The River on the average of 49 weeks a year and each reel getting used 50% of the time.
    At this rate all the lines are replaced every two years.

    I have been having a lot of fun with 30lb mono and Mega Arbor reels.
    Working with it on these nice chilly mornings has made me respect those people who use it all the time.
    Who know what is next.

    As for Irish whiskey only internally and when the day is done.
    Have spent some time with bogtrotters and hold their brew in great esteem as long as it single pot.
    Not to be out done I still like my Scotch like I like my women single and over 18 years.
  9. flybill Purveyor of fine hackle, wine & cigars!

    Guideline! Guideline! The Airflo mono is nice too. Of course it depends on what type of line that you're using.

    I need to try the Dragontail running line too. Tried the Sharkskin recently, it shoots well, but you have to be careful not to tear up your fingers and it's best to strip with both hands with the rod tucked under your arm pit.
  10. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    Ratings: +40 / 0
    Rio Powerflex core line shoots well, but not very tough. I have (.024) on my 5wt that has missing sheathing and cracks (mono core exposed), it was new at the start of summer. The Rio running line on my 7wt (winter/spring rod), seems to be doing ok, leaving me to believe summer temps may be the cause.

    Was thinking about trying the Ridgeline, but Brian, you make a very valid point, at $2.50 why not try the amnesia first. If I like the amnesia, whats the best loop for head attachment (perhaps a perfection loop large enought to pass a coiled head)?

    MasterAnglerTaylor - Loop to Loop...knotting them together cancels out the other advantage of heads, the ability to change lines without changing spools and restringing your rod.

  11. sothereiwas Member

    Posts: 304
    Issaquah, WA
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    I use the Homer Rhode loop on my amnesia running lines. Its much smoother than a perfection loop.
  12. James Waggoner Active Member

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    Homer Rhode loop...How is it tied?

    And what about backing to Amnesia?
  13. SPEYBUM Member

    Posts: 271
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    Up Date
    Forgot some running lines.
    I also have spool up Dragons tail and Sharks king running lines.
    Foot not I have both Airflo and SA Braided mono’s on the TryRack and I must say that these running lines are very good for the price break.
    I have yet to wear one out.
  14. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,827
    Roy, WA
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    bless you Aaron my friend-
    both for your approach to running lines and your taste for the spirits...I too, have been known to imbibe a single malt Scotch at day's end rather than an Irish...but only on occasion and I'll enjoy a 12 year old whiskey with great relish. I likes 'em young and cheap, like my wimmens. (wait a minute...!)
    but on your comments-
    I'm a little weird about running line. I'm the king of atypical applications.
    -I generally use shooting head systems on smaller rivers, Skagit and mid/longbellies on middlin' to larger waters. Because of this I feel like I can get away with using larger diameter running line. I like the ease of handling, extra strength, (a couple) fewer tangles, and the feel in my hand. So I go 30# or .030, minimum.
    -Also I like being able to weld new loops on easily, something I find frustrating with monocore, skinny lines like Rio Powerflex. I love the welds I get with the Guideline LRL ridge and would love to try the Airflo more, I've heard they come out of the same factory but I have no idea if that's true. I have a friend with an Airflo ridge and when we played with it it welded really nicely.
    I've been meaning to try a braid, I think I could put up with the noise, but don't have an open spool to use it on right now.
    in short my choices are based on ease of handling and maintenance rather than skinniness and brute shootability.
  15. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    Ratings: +40 / 0
    Tried the Amnesia...I'm like'n it so far! Great casting and like the idea of 200' feet of running line; Even though to see backing is a cool feeling...rare that it maybe, I feel better having one less knot run through the guides with a fish on.

    At $5 for a 200' spool, it really is a no brainer. If you find some buy a few extras, it's really hard to find locally. I heard that supply is limited and possibly out of production.

  16. Grayone Fishin' to the end, Oc.P

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    boring, oregon
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  17. k2flyfisher its taco time. wheres the sauce?

    Posts: 408
    Portland, OR
    Ratings: +3 / 0
    for amnesia, i'll use a double surgeons loop large enough to pass the reel through on both ends, and then a 5 turn lock back towards the knot, the same way a bimini is finished, then knot-sensed. for the backing end, ive been in the habit of tying a doubled over bimini twist, also with the loops large enough to pass the reel through. a minor peeve is a running line or backing loop that you have to pass the entire line through, instead of the reel.