sage 1016 - light line casting

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by yuhina, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. T Dave

    T Dave Member

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    Speaking of posers Bobby,, would be great to see that vid of you hitting 120' consistently with those awesome "vapor" casts? Be sure to bust out the "thunderstick" and fancy "bright green string".... should be a snap if your toss is half as good as your talk. :D

    T Dave- always looking to learn from the masters
     
  2. SPEYBUM

    SPEYBUM Member

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    Mark, Gordon and Bruce Keeping track of the thread, Most intersesting but hard to post from a phone.
     
  3. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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  4. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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  5. speyghillie

    speyghillie speyghillie

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    Hi Everybody,
    No problem keeping on track, it early morning for me, and if i wanted rowdiness i would only have to go to any bar where i live, bar culture being a little different in the Highlands of Scotland, trust me iv'e been in a few.

    Here goes,
    Yukina,
    you say,
    " For analogy, you can ride a bike at the easiest gear mode to go uphill… (lowest gear, so one pedal rotation only transfer to small distance to the back wheel - easy pedal mode ), it would be a easy ride, because each stroke cycle take less energy to complete, but it will take forever to go uphill. On the other hand, if you are riding a hard gear mode, then every rotation produce a lot of power, but it take shorter time to finish the trip.
    I say.
    This maybe true, but if you were to cycle over a long period and uphill, which would be more tiring and would you really get there faster ?, i say the guys in the tour de France (the greatest bike race in the world) change down gears on the long mountain sections, if what you say is true , why dont they just stay in one hard mode, if these guys could blast to the top of the mountain in a hard gear they would. but there has to be a balance in everything,......you know the rule... there is always an equal and opposite reaction, they might not go to the lowest gear but somewhere in the middle depending on the effort required, ect, again because of the way WE are made. flycasting all day is no different ,
    Holy smoke we seem to becoming back to the start, light line v heavier line casting....... a balance in everything i say.
    All good fun.


    On that note if you ever spend a day fishing a shooting head line that is too heavy for the rod but goes like **** and looks impressive, but fish it all day.......... nae use, a great example would be airflow 40plus, casting it for 20 mins its fun, fish it all day its murder due to the company rating it lower and nothing to do with its profile and it overloading the rod.


    I watched the clip of Steve Rajeff casting and he truly is one of the best single-handed casters there is, if not the best,and he has a free and easy casting style, but to gain this distance on the big casts he uses a fair amount of drift and force, i am going to find it difficult talk about efficient casting and balance when it comes to distance casting it does take great skill and technique but also a lot of force, look at Steve's face on one of the casts,you couldn't fish all day doing that, huge effort from the best,:thumb: i was going to talk a little about drift, but fear i will wander off this thread but drift and lift are important in flycasting, fishing days and distance casting, (more distance... for little effort, partly due to the weight of the line being off the rod before it loads the rod again), easy in traditional casting and part of the reason every distance Speycasting compitition has been won by using a long line using a traditional style of casting with drift.
    will try to get back to where i started...... in a rambling kinda way.
    I take on board everything you say Yuhina,
    I know casting machanics have been covered many times on many different fishing forums, but i feel if we are talking about everyday fly fishing it will always come down to a balance as everything always does, after all they even tell me now i have to have a balanced diet. :beathead:

    Got to fly.
    Gordon
    DTX Pro Staff.
     
  6. Wadecalvin

    Wadecalvin Member

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    All right, somebody better cut Bob off before fisticuffs break out, or he removes his kilt. This is almost as good as the Cliff Bar thread.
     
  7. Wadecalvin

    Wadecalvin Member

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    I think Bob has some of his vids on vimeo or on his profile page on this site. I know I've seen them somewhere. Not a rank beginner.

    One thing that puzzles me is that although this is about bio mechanics etc. We have no true way of measuring all of this stuff. People say, "I use 80% bottom hand and 20% top" etc. But how do we know? Maybe its really 50 50- its all guess work unless we have some sort of way to measure pressure or use super slow mow side by side comparisons to measure etc. Who knows how many immeasurable nuances there are in this game and how much is attributed to talent, strength, timing, finesse, pure machismo, Joan Wullfness, and all the other intangibles.

    As a testimony to this thread I have become very aware how dominant my up hand is in my regular casting and how much better it is when I at least am aware of my bottom hand and make a conscious effort to use it as much as possible, but I have no idea what percentage- so thanks for that. Coupled with a long smooth Simon Gawesworth type up hand forward stroke. So Thanks.
     
  8. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    Gordon please continue with casting proficiencies in regards to the pivot. I think a lot of confusion occurs when we fail to accurately locate the pivot. For example in the Rajeff single hand casting example, Mark states the pivot is in the lower point of the elbow, in the Goran videos it's been said the pivot occurs in the upper hand. In reality, in both instances, the pivot is some where between the two hands...or in the single hand example some where between the hand and the elbow.

    James.
     
  9. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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  10. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    Hi Mark
    The part you totally seem to be missing in this discussion, is that efficient casts are temporal and situational. For real fishing situations the foundation of this discussion, the premise itself, is flawed. Every cast is a discrete event, and the ultimate variable-the caster- defies analysis in depth. We are all so different we don't even have the same number of bones in our bodies. This is why casting styles vary so widely, because getting good at casting is exploring yourself. Oh, the left brain phase is very nice, but at a certain point it breaks down. As it does here.
    Some very experienced dudes are weighing in and they're getting smarmy little lectures back. Just know they're stringin' you right along. This is what I mean by the "winter OCD thread". Always somebody wanting to score a little cred for himself by scoring on Aaron or Bruce or Gordon etc. instead of listening and learning. This is why Simon, Dec, the Skagiteers X Ed, don't post much anymore...
    And I don't have cred until I post up a vid for you....seriously?:rofl::rofl: this one was especially cute-"To me, you are relatively new to the sport, relative new to this board". :rofl::rofl: In the words of my grandaughter, "OMG, LOL". Hooeee.
    Like some other pretty experienced dudes, I'll bow out of this one. It'll leave you extra bandwidth to expound.

    edit: my favorite part was post # 76, where you told Bruce Kruk to open his mind and get ready to learn. In the words of my granddaughter...oh, I said that already...
     
  11. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

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    James, I believe that what you had to say concerning power application and which hand is doing what made the most sense so far.
    It is hard to measure or even discern by video but the loop shape never lies.
    Too much top hand and the forward loop is round, the right amount of bottom hand leading the top hand and you get the sweet tight v on the forward cast.
    Mark, a sugestion on your casting videos, try standing at least upper thigh to waist deep as well as executing an angle change. A simple back and forth switch cast ankle to knee deep really shows little.
     
  12. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    Speyspaz, the beautiful thing about discussing priciples/fundamentals is they are applicable regardless of style or how many bones one has. With a good understanding of principles we are well on our way to adopting a casting syle and making it our own. Without the benifit of understanding what's going on, how does one get better? How does one discern what his "Loop Shape" is saying. Like Bruce said, loop shape never lies.

    Speyspaz I've read enough of your post to know where your knowledge base and experience stems from and don't need a video to validate your input. Don't worry you don't need to blast Mark and get down to his level...I'd say his "Loop Shape" has spoken loads in this thread and anyone paying attention knows he was out of line.

    James.
     
  13. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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  14. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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  15. speyghillie

    speyghillie speyghillie

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    Hi Yuhina,
    Guess i am the only one that goes to the CLA,........ there is a 45 degree angle change in competition casting.
    Got to fly.
    Gordon.
     
  16. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    I was wondering if anyone had those videos handy somewhere. Would be great to watch as I like watching cast of all sorts, and maybe I could learn something....
     
  17. Brady Burmeister

    Brady Burmeister Active Member

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    Mark, I eagerly await your development as a long line caster so you can start winning distance competitions with a 400 gr. line on a 10 wt. rod. That'll be a video worth watching......all due respect.
     
  18. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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  19. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    Most of my vids are of line experiments and trying out various lines on new rods, or especially to troubleshoot a certain cast. I had a rod/line combo that finally broke the 150 barrier for me, yet after I set it down for a few months and scandicast for most of the summer I couldn't do shit. As you will see.
    So this is what I look like with a lousy anchor, no extension, and a low forward stop: definitely not a vid engineered to make me look good.

    View attachment 46390

    I won't stoop far enough to make purty little casts and post them on the net as proof of worth, James, I grew out of that awhile ago, RELATIVELY speaking. The worth of this vid was that I got my juju back after examining my horrible form closely. I got back to about a consistent 140+, ascending loop, fishable cast a couple weeks later- which was just in time for the flows to go through the roof...better luck next year, LOL!
    But at least there was a hatchery fish for the freezer the day of this vid...good times.

    edit: I tried to upload some other vids, of my absolute worst casts ever, 'cuz I'm really getting into this now, but the files are too big.
     
  20. T Dave

    T Dave Member

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    hmmm, maybe 100', inefficient load,, cast off the tip into a pile,, with about a 15 degree angle change.

    I am not impressed by your performance Jedi master. Maybe I should take you up on that call out after all.:rofl:
     

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