SAGE 9140-4 Graphite III Brownie Question

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by montanafos, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. montanafos Member

    Posts: 144
    Billings, MT
    Ratings: +8 / 0
    Excuse my ignorance with this question. I'm a fan of Sage old school rods...own several LL series and RPL's currently and love each of them. I'm looking at Sage spey rods currently and think I am settling on a 9140-4 Brownie. What I'm finding is that there were a few 9140-4 Sage spey rods in the earlier years...ranging from DS, to GFL...etc. I've found a 9140-4 Graphite III, with no other descriptive model information and am looking for information to help me understand which rod I am looking at before I take the plunge. The reel seat is black, the blank is the brown graphite III, with brown wraps and it is marked with Sage 9140-4 Graphite III and weighing 7 3/8 oz. I would greatly appreciate any input about this specific series, with the specific model I am considering. Which model year series would this fall in to? Is this the model that folks refer to as a noodle? From what I've found it looks like the reel seat issues were with an earlier model...with a bright reel seat with a wood insert? I've found enough info on the web and this forum to lead to a bit of confusion...the reason for the post.

    Really appreciate the help...
  2. montanafos Member

    Posts: 144
    Billings, MT
    Ratings: +8 / 0
    Well... I took the plunge on this rod and probably spent a few bucks too much...not the end of the world and worth it to me for a clean rod. The rod hasn't seen much use and is represented as lawn cast only. Still a bit confused as to which rod I bought. I've been finding lots of posts on these, but each post references different weights, reel seat configurations and data on the blanks. I did find one...and only one...where a guy owned a couple for he and his wife that referenced the black reel seat on a 2001ish, 7 3/8 oz. 9140-4 in graphite III that was a bit faster than a mid 90's 7 oz that he owned as well. So, hopeful this was a good purchase and will be fun to learn with. Always happy to have a classic Sage and looking forward to it joining my other brown Sage rods. Was hoping someone on here would have been able to shed some light on the rod. I imagine this type of subject has been beat to death...sorry about that.

    Couple pics...all I could get from the seller
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  3. Nooksack Mac Active Member

    Posts: 1,961
    Bellingham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +120 / 0
    Perhaps what's needed is a new sort of historian/scholar: one who would record, classify, and evaluate the evolution of important fly rod models. I owned a 9140-4 GFL III "old brownie" for a few years. After fishing mostly with 10/11 15-footers, it seemed like something close to a small, light spey rod. It was part of Sage's Traditional series of 4-piece spey rods, contemporaneous with its 3-piece, faster European series. It had the bright aluminum/wood reel seat and short front grip that I believe was a slight disadvantage on a spey rod of that size. Starting with the 1991 Sage catalog, the oldest I have, the rod was supposedly 7 ounces, and recommended for 9/10 lines. In more recent years, the same rod was classified as a straight 9-weight, with a weight of 9 3/4 ounces. (I think that most of us consider the "old Brownie" to be a true 8-weight now.)

    With its strong tip and medium action, it was and remains an excellent rod for skagit lines. The "old brownie" was one of the few benchmark rods for which the concept and reality of skagit lines was cut, spliced, and tweaked into existence.
  4. montanafos Member

    Posts: 144
    Billings, MT
    Ratings: +8 / 0
    Nooksack...appreciate the post. Really looking forward to learning this rod and spey casting. I spend a week each fall on the Clearwater in Orofino and plan to spend more time there and throughout the northwest as I can fit it in...kids are now old enough that my boys and I are able to road trip a bit. An 8 wt was what I was going after so that's good news. Sounds like a 7/8/9 WC is a popular choice on this rod. I have lots to learn.

    Thanks again...
  5. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,572
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,702 / 0
    I have one of these rods that I built up from a blank. It's a forgiving rod that is easy to learn to cast. It's heavier than I need for my steelhead fishing, so I save it for chinook or heavier duty work. Enjoy your rod.

    Sg
  6. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,826
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    I have a 90's brownie with the wood/bright reel seat. I like yours better, does it seat modern reels? Mine doesn't.
    Anyhow, a classic rod; wonderful, forgiving and strong. I like a 600 skagit on mine, will huck literally anything. I've used lighter heads down to 500, but why? it feels more like a brownie with the heavier head. I use mine for dogs, nookies etc so it doesn't get out much. A fantastic fish-fighting rod, I find fewer fish break me off and the hook doesn't pop out as often either; it just flexes and keeps you in touch. Nice

    Bob
  7. montanafos Member

    Posts: 144
    Billings, MT
    Ratings: +8 / 0
    Nice to see some posts about this rod...from some very experienced folks. I don't have the rod yet, but will post what I find with the reel seat and a few more pics once it's here. I'm expecting it towards the end of the week. Just talked to Poppy and after receiving his approval on the rod :thumb: he suggested a Delta Multi Tip 8/9...so that's what I went with and he's sending it out. For a reel I think I'm going to pursue a vintage Salmon #2. Would like to keep this set up as traditional as possible.

    Thanks again for the responses and appreciate the affirmation that this was a good purchase.
  8. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,764
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,784 / 0
    The venerable 9140. The rod that likely did more for the early developement of the Skagit style line than any other. Many of us got our start with one of these.

    I got one someplace out in the garage. The thing hasn't seen the light of day in at least 10 or 12 years now. I might just have to get it out and see if it still casts as well as it did back in the day. One of two old 2 handers I would never give up.
    fredaevans likes this.
  9. montanafos Member

    Posts: 144
    Billings, MT
    Ratings: +8 / 0
    This is EXACTLY why I searched out a clean example of this rod. I get a huge kick out of the legacy tied to it and the affection of those who have owned them. Looking forward to experiencing it myself.
  10. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,138
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +791 / 1
    I purchased a used Sage 8136 IIIe as my first spey rod and really like it. To be sure, I have only casted a couple of other spey rods, so limited knowledge here. That said, I have talked to a number of spey fisherman (many of them older) and they tell me these are still on the favorites list. My neighbor in his late 60's has the 7136 and said it's going out of this world with him. He's been on the hunt looking for an 8136. I matched mine up with a CDL 10/12 reel and SA Skagit Spey interchangeable line.

    I suspect you will love the new rod and never look back.
  11. psycho Active Member

    Posts: 362
    B.C. Canada
    Ratings: +142 / 0
    I have a 7136 brownie and a 10150 brownie love them both. Caught a lot of Chinook and Chum on that big rod.
  12. Benni Member

    Posts: 59
    seattle, WA
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    i have the 9140 with bright reel seat/ wood insert. it came highly recommended as a first rod (good to learn on), and the great history that came with it. just about every old school northwest steelhead fisherman i have talked to had one of these rods, and still uses it as one of their favorites. i love fishing with it, and probably will never get rid of it. this is the first year i have actually sought out a newer shorter rod for winter fishing, so i assume the 9140 wont see as much use.
  13. 808steelheader Member

    Posts: 47
    Springfield, OR
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    I built one of these from a blank in 1995 and still own it and love it. I tend to line it on the "light" side so I've run WC 7/8/9s, Delta 7/8, AFS 7/8 (460grain), and a standard Skagit 450. Although the 9140 brownie is an awesome rod that I would never sell, I haven't used it much lately due to my current affection with old single hand glass rods. You won't regret your purchase of this rod. Use a relaxed stroke and you'll be golden.
  14. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 2,355
    m-ville
    Ratings: +736 / 0
    These 9140 brownies were the hot deal in the early ninetys you saw them in use every where even on the north fork of the stilly. Then a guy from mt. vernon area started building 12 foot 6wt speyrods from a extended sage blank on a custom basis which became the small river favorite , By the mid ninetys everyone had speyrod fever.
  15. montanafos Member

    Posts: 144
    Billings, MT
    Ratings: +8 / 0
    I just bought a beautiful Hardy Marquis Salmon #2 for this rod. Can't wait to get everything in my hands! The rod should be here in a few days and the reel about the same time. Poppy suggested a Delta 8/9 multi tip and it too is on it's way to me. Just bought a Rio spey casting DVD so now it's time to start learning. A couple pics of the reel...
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  16. 1morecast Active Member

    Posts: 751
    Port Angeles
    Ratings: +51 / 0
    Montanafos,

    That is Classic rig you will be fishing with. I have the 9140 with the wooden reel seat and use the
    salmon 3 on mine. Like 808 I prefer to line mine on the light side. When this rod first came out the shop I bought it from recommended a WC 8/9 or 9/10, can't remember which. A couple of years later I forgot my reel (i know) and a friend loaned me his spare reel which was lined with the 7/8. Man what a differance! The rod was a pleasure to cast with the heavy line; with the lighter line the the tip just popped!

    It is mainly my dry line rod. Just might to have take her out for a little skagit casting this week!:cool:

    P.S. If the setup does not suit yer style PM me!:D
  17. bamboo2041 New Member

    Posts: 8
    Federal Way, Washington
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I have a Sage 9140-3 Brownie that I'm looking to sell if you are interested. charles.vaden@comcast.net
  18. montanafos Member

    Posts: 144
    Billings, MT
    Ratings: +8 / 0
    PM Sent pon 9143-3
  19. FT Active Member

    Posts: 1,243
    Burlington, WA
    Ratings: +103 / 0
    Folks,

    Keep in mind that the 9140-3 brownie is a very different rod than the 9140-4 brownie. The 9140-4 is a very full-flex, slower rod that bends into the butt when casting. The 9140-3 is a much stiffer rod that is of the mid-flex, faster type.

    I owned the 9140-4. In fact, it was my first 2-hander which I bought back in 1993. After being unhappy with the rod when lined with a 9/10 DT spey line (the only line I was able to find that was supposedly for it back then), it was badly overloaded. I then got a new to the market Windcutter 9/10/11 (again because it was supposedly the line for a 9/10 rod), and it badly overloaded the rod too, although not as badly as the 9/10 DT. Next, I tried an 8/9/10 Windcutter, and it too overloaded the rod. Finally, after using the rod for two years, I was able to cast a 7/8/9 Windcutter on it and found a line that felt right without overloading the rod.

    Right after that I ran into Jim Vincent and I asked him about why the 9/10/11 Windcutter so badly overloaded the rod. Jim told me that if I took the middle section out of the interchangeable tip version of the Windcutter, (or made a second cut on the full line at 30' from the tip and simply left out that 15' portion) and looped the sinktips or floating tip to the remaining belly it would ballance the rod perfectly. I asked him why, and he told me because that was the way Jimmy Green designed the 9140-4 and 7136 rods. Jimmy fished shooting heads and designed these two rods around shooting heads; hence, they worked fine with the shortened Windcutter, but would be overloaded with the full Windcutter of the line wt designated on the rod.

    Therefore, if you are going to use a short-belly line like the Windcutter, Delta, or SA Short Belly, go with a 7/8 (7/8/9 in the Windcutter) to avoid overloading the rod. However, if you going to use a Skagit line (keep in mind this was the benchmark rod used for early Skagit line development) use a 600-650 gr Skagit line.
  20. inland Active Member

    Posts: 600
    .
    Ratings: +50 / 0
    To re-iterate what FlyTyer said, the 9140-3 'brownie' is nothing like the 4 pc. 'brownie'. It is a legitimate 9/10 designed by Goran Andersson for 'his' 'underhand' style of casting. It is a mid flex rod (through action is a good description) with fast recovery and fully engages the exponentially stiffer (vs. the 4 pc) bottom third. The rod also works nicely for 'spey' casting as well, with short-mid-long belly lines. I do not prefer to use it for skagit stuff whereas the 4pc is a better option (IMO). Across the board I like 9/10 rated lines on this rod. I do use my 4pc. once in a while preferring 7/8's for drylines. And 8/9 short heads (55' lines) for sinktips. Skagits over 600 seem to be a good match as has been mentioned.