Sage and Simms at Costco?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Philster, Mar 31, 2011.

  1. Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Posts: 7,138
    Not sure
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    I'd venture that most companies don't voluntarily choose to manufacture offshore so much as their customer demand it through their preference for a lower price point. I think that as Americans, we all want to keep manufacturing jobs here in the US. But as consumers, nobody willingly pays a higher price for something. It's in our nature to try to 'drive a hard bargain' and get something for less than a stated retail price. That's why the notion of buying something 'on sale' is so appealing, or why we try so hard to negotiate a lower price when buying a car or a house.

    The inherent contradiction though is that we can't have it both ways. Goods manufactured here are more expensive because American labor is higher paid than workers in say, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka or China. Would you work for $4 a day? A lot of American crops go unpicked right now for the equivalent of $8 an hour.

    I had this very conversation today with Chris Callanan, the director of sales and marketing for Outcast boats. Turns out that all but one of their pontoon boats is made offshore. Why? Customers don''t want to pay a premium price for a US-made boat when an offshore one costs half as much. Sadly, he told me that the US-made frames simply didn't have the quality or consistency as those made offshore even though they cost twice as much. But it wasn't like Outcast set out to offshore their products - that's what the market demanded, even though most of us are embarrassed to admit it.

    K
  2. Caveman Member

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  3. LMFOA New Member

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    travelling the world
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    Bingo.
  4. BDD Active Member

    Posts: 2,238
    Ellensburg, WA
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    Kent, I agree with almost all of what you posted as I do with most things you post. And even the part above in quotes may be true at very high production levels. However, I still firmly believe that the frames we build one-at-a-time in North Bend, WA will beat offshore frames in both consistency, quality, and durability every time. Yeah, they do cost more as you would expect.

    At the 2011 Washington Sportman Show, in two days working the booth, I had three different people tell me their experience with offshore frames they had got at big box stores; how they had literally fallen apart while floating down the river. Our builder has only had one return for repair out of more than a thousand he's built in 15 years. And that was because the guy ran over it with his truck.

    Yes, you are correct. However there are exceptions.
  5. Lugan Joe Streamer

    Posts: 2,400
    Beautiful View, WA
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    Before you call someone and idiot, you might check your spelling or your insult will boomerang.
  6. Go Fish Language, its a virus

    Posts: 1,285
    Rheomode, Wa.
    Ratings: +94 / 0
    So many things we buy have become
    commodities which means that price
    is primary because of options, with
    that interweb thing. So instead of
    shopping at the local Gig Harbor shop
    I've found a better deal in Auckland.
    Now I like the guys at the shop but
    if I can save x amount of bucks well,
    hell.

    I love my Sage RPL and if they sold them
    at Costco for a great price, I'd get two.

    Dave
  7. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,789
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +689 / 5
    Gearhead, it's not that at all. I could care less if they did. The problem is the method they went about getting the stock. They do this to TONS of people, not just fishing. The stigma that comes with Costco cheapens a product. Doubt anyone who deals with any industries would argue that.
  8. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

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    Graham, WA, USA.
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    I agree BDD, I know who your builder is now, I've had a few of his frames. He does great work. But yeah, if you put him on a scale where he had to put out 300-600 frames a day, that may take a toll on him and his quality. And yeah, those off shore frames had thier quirks back in the day, but I haven't really dealt with one in years. Most of my frames have been customs over the years (outside the Steelheader frames).
  9. Kaiserman content

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    That Jerry, is it in a nutshell. Well put.
  10. Fat Lady New Member

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    Calgary
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    :rofl:
  11. Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

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    Snoqualmie, WA
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    Now that's funny for sure. Calling someone out for a typo, and there's one in the post. :rofl:
  12. South Sound Member

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    North Tacoma
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    The notion that they are not selling rods less than MSRP is ridiculous. Check sierratradingpost.com They have both Sage and Simms marked way down when they have them. Also the concept that a seller cannot sell their product where ever and however they want is a bit too far for me.
  13. stewart dee Guest

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    The Wal*Mart is featuring Sage now! Ice cream is on sale this week.
  14. Kaiserman content

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    Uh, maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but this isn't about Simms and Sage selling a product how they want. It's just the opposite actually. Costco did the ol' "end around" on those companies. Neither Sage or Simms wanted to sell at Costco. At least that's how I understand this ordeal.
  15. BDD Active Member

    Posts: 2,238
    Ellensburg, WA
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    Authorized fly shops can sell Sage and Simms at discounted prices too. The difference is when this happens, those products have been or will be discontinued and the authorized dealers can then sell them for less than MSRP. But the sale has to be pre-authorized by the manufacturer. Yeah, it isn't much different than price fixing but it is the rule that everybody lives by. This instance with Costco is different because they were selling goods, supposedly unauthorized mind you, below what every other authorized dealer could sell them.

    One thing Simms and Sage could have done was to void the warranty of the products sold at Costco. If that were the case, how many of you would still think it to be such a great deal?
  16. jeff bandy Make my day

    Posts: 2,429
    Edmonds, Wa.
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    How would they know were you got it. If they moved to having everyone provide a receipt, it would cause problems for everyone. Do you know where you receipt for a rod you got ten years ago is?
  17. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,789
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +689 / 5
    I don't have a rod handy. But doesn't Sage number their blanks? I know my old Fenwicks did. Wasn't sure if I saw a blank # on the factory made Sages. If they do and had inventory of all rods sent to that forwarder it would be easy. Now Simms on the other hand. No idea how they'd inforce it.
  18. BDD Active Member

    Posts: 2,238
    Ellensburg, WA
    Ratings: +223 / 2
    Jeff,

    I do keep my receipts for large ticket items; guns, high end rods and reels, applicances, etc. in a lock box for safekeeping but I acknowledge that not everybody does.

    I would think that the serial numbers could be attained from all the items that wound up and were sold at Costco. If so, that would be one easy way to determine point of sale. I don't recall that Simms requires a serial number to be put on the warranty card like rod makers do, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is some number on their waders that could be used.
  19. Lugan Joe Streamer

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    Beautiful View, WA
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    Doh! I have egg on my face.
  20. Caveman Member

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    Humm. I think the spelling is correct. No worries here.........

    You all should stop buying any type of product that is made over seas. Start buying all American made products and you will really see how much mark-up is on everything....