Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Stonefish, Jun 13, 2013.
Talk all the smack you want boys, but admit that you want one.
Deleted what I said.
My inner rant came out... sorry
Do you want your Scotch aged 12 years or 18? Step up to the plate Angus.
I classify swing weight as the weight you feel in the portion of the rod above the grip going to the tip when holding the rod out in front of you.Ive picked up my 90's rods and they do feel heavier in swing weight compared to my newer rods that ive purchased in the past 3 yrs.Many years ago i dreamt of owning an orvis hls adams traveler 4wt,and managed to find one on ebay.I was so excited.When i received the rod i put it together and it felt like a brick had been strapped onto the tip.I sold it.The newer rods have significantly less swing weight and thats all i can think they can improve on.But my sage one 5wt feels so light i dont know how they can go lighter.Just my 2c...
I love it when Sage introduces a new line of rods it makes great reading here on WFF.
It is all relative my friends. If I buy an $800. sage fly rod and use it three years before I sell it and buy a new improved model the cost will be somewhere around, $175.00 per year. That is the price of ONE ROUND OF GOLF and a few drinks at a blue ribbon course, or a big night out on the town with your SO or buddies, or well you get the picture. If I had the disposable income right now there would be a 5wt Method in the rod closet tomorrow the heck with you haters!
After you read through all the marketing spin on this, in the end it's a TCX replacement using their latest Konnetic Technology. Some need or want a rod that is ultra fast action and some do not. Where I sit, a company like Sage benefits everyone whether or not you buy and fish a Sage. The R&D that they do, and the products they make, push other companies to improve upon their products. They've got to make money one way or another.
If you ever wanted a TCX but never pulled the trigger, now is a great time to pick one up. If you want the latest technologies you have that option too. There always seems to be a market for discontinued Sage models and I'm going to venture to say that years down the road the latest incantations will be no exception.
I'm sure glad that I'm poor and can't afford to spend big bucks on a fly rod. I'm as happy as a clam with what I use to fish with. After all the fish don't give a shit what kind of rod you use to catch them with.
It must be an ego thing to have an $800.00 rod to fish with. After all it's said and done, if you can't cast worth a shit. No amount of money spent on a rod is going to help. You should get lessons.
Old and happy in Montana, where the fish don't give a shit what you use to have fun with. I think I'll go ride my ATV around in the hills today and get my mind off this bull shit.
Swing weight is absolutely meaningless and has no bearing on the performance of a rod whatsoever! It's become a popular term to use but if you hear it used in a rod review run the other way the people have no idea what they are talking about.
My elbow appreciates lighter swing weights, thus I can cast longer in time, less fatigue. Yes it is a noticeable difference over a course of all day casting, or even multi day trips.
Don't like the name... I'm out.
The lambasting is only tedious because the marketing hype makes it so. And as for what technology I'm happily fishing with, it's mix of old, real old, and relatively new. That is, split cane bamboo has been a rod material of choice for around 130 years, enough time to develop a truly solid reputation. Rod tapers change some, making them quite fast compared to century-old bamboo rods, and extremely slow compared to Sage's most recent additions. Most cane rods are now made hollow-built, so that too is a change. Those are rods I'm happily fishing these days, and I have a few modern graphite rods including Sage in my line up, from the LL and RPL series and graphite III Spey rod series, definitely 90s technology.
What I really appreciate about Sage's contribution to inovation, along with the other leading rod makers, is that rod making technology trickles down. Thanks to their R & D and progress, absolutely great rods are available at affordable prices from importers that are quite superior to many, if not most, leading rod brands top of the line offerings in the early graphite days, and render obsolete all but the best of the best old fiberglass rods. Thanks to the rapid progress and evolution of rods made by Sage and others, exceedingly fine fishing instruments can be had at price points from $59 - $200. We are all better off for it.
No, I really don't want one, the ONE, or Method, or Whatever made of unobtanium. I might say that I couldn't care less, except for what I've said above regarding the trickle down of technology that makes good rods available at very affordable prices.
so what other rod companies are offering $800 performance at half that price?
Should be interesting to see the TCX spey replacement... a few Sage dealers online are blowing out the TCX single and two handers. That's what I'd be most interested in.
6 or 7 or 8 or 10 (hell, I don't remember) years ago I had the cash and the wherewithall to upgrade my fly gear to something sweeeeeeet to replace my few-years-old VPS and Ross Cimmaron reel. I casted (poorly) a lot of rods, and ending up dropping around $700 for a Winston Biix with a Ross Evolution reel. Lightest, fastest, rod/reel combo on the market at the time, sure to land me more fish, cast more accurately, farther, and make my body odor after a long day of fishing smell like of a manly musk mixed with a perfectly done Porterhouse steak. And it did. And it still does to this day. I still love the combination, and while it hasn't helped my casting all that much, it has in fact made me taller, smarter, and women flock to me whether I'm fishing or not. It's true - like I've got a $100 bill hanging out of my zipper.
I've cast other, newer, rods since then. Maybe I like them more, and maybe it's because they don't have the dried algae or dirt from previous fishing trips, or the nicks from casting huge double nymph rigs in gale-force winds on them. But I still love my rod. I'll probably replace it some day, and maybe with a rod like the METHOD, but I'm in no hurry, because my Biix carries my tailing loop as well as any rod on the market.
But this marketing isn't for me (now), or a lot of you guys out there. It's for the me of some time ago that was looking to purchase a first high-end rod and to "the guys" of 20 or 25 years ago that were looking to purchase a high-end rod at that time. And besides the guys like Jesse that basically "rent" a rod for a couple of years before selling it and upgrading, or guides that buy quivers of rods every year or two, or (last, but certainly not least) the super rich that can afford to buy new rods at this price point with regularity, this marketing isn't for "you," it's for the you that once broke the proverbial bank to buy a high-end rod (whether last year or two decades ago) in order to cast like a stallion, catch more fish, and get chicks hand-over-fish because of your, ahem, rod.
I've got no idea what the actual sales figures are for new, high-end rods. I'd guess they're fairly low, though. For a rod like this, maybe 5,000? Around the world each year, there are enough suckers like me (of 6, or 7, or 8, or 10 or whatever years ago), and enough smart guys like Jesse, and enough guides that feel like they have to impress their high-falutin clients to make marketing like this not only profitable, but necessary.
TCX was an awesome rod series. The jury is still out on the ONE for me as it seems fickle in terms of matching a line. Once you find a good line, they're amazing. I have a sneaking suspicion a lot of people are giving up on it because it's just too fast for them and most of the lines rated for the rod aren't flexing it enough for their liking. I bet it's just a matter of time before you can buy specific lines matched precisely to the rod. (mo' money less problems)
I always get a kick out of people jumping on the Sage bashing wagon. If you like buying cheap stuff, fine. But, there's nothing wrong with a local company pushing the edges on rod technology and selling a couple thousand of them while they're at it. YOU KNOW - support your local fly shop and all that glorious patriotic shit. How do you expect them to stay in business if they never get a new stick in once in a while anyhow?! C'mon guys, buy LOCAL!
Fly fishing is a cheap hobby compared to many. An $800 rod isn't that big of a deal when compared to the cost of playing golf or something every weekend. There's a big percentage of people that just like trying new rods out as well. It's fun to cast a new stick.
I can't wait to check out the new rods. Why not?
Not true, at least for me. A few years ago I had to have several vertebrae in my neck fused. I can attest that newer rods with lighter swing weights make it possible for me to fish all day. If all I had was my old Scott S4 I would have hung it up.
I would stop a little short of calling myself a gear whore but I do have a few modest (mostly USA-built) rods that each have their strengths and work well for the different types of fishing I do. My wife and I made the life-defining decisions many years ago that she would stay home to raise our son and be a homemaker, and our only debt would be a home mortgage. I simply could not afford to have outfitted myself with $5k worth of top drawer rods and another $3k of reels and spools or $150 rounds of golf and/or nights out with the guys, though hurray for those who can.
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Interestingly, what Sage has done is no different than virtually every other rod manufacturer does, which is to try to create new or improved products to induce buyers to purchase the latest and greatest.
Buzz words are a big part of that. In fact, regardless of industry, from technology to automobiles to toothpaste, all successful companies engage in trying to convince us that their products are somehow unique and will enhance our lives in some way. Some of y'all just want something to bitch about.
About 2 weeks ago I had the opportunity to cast a few rods. I casted the Sage One 6 wt. and a 4 wt. Circa. I liked the Circa, but the One (on a scale of 1-10) = One in my book. Heavy rod and stiff. I wonder what Don Green thinks of all of this....