Sage One at costco...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by WA-Fly, Jun 28, 2013.

  1. dflett68 Active Member

    Posts: 601
    snohomish
    Ratings: +197 / 0
    jesse i love your posts and i won't even try to compete with your wit, but that wasn't a very vigorous treatment of the problem this creates between sage and fly shops. i'm not even suggesting sage charges too much. from my perspective, there's a market that supports their product and their price point so more power to them. their market believes their product is that much better than the lower price points, so more power to the markets. what i get tired of is the endless sign waving for the specialty retailers, as if they were owed something by the market place and the consumer - they aren't. here are the players in this game:

    manufacturer
    fly shop
    costco (competition)
    slimy distributor not well vetted by sage (competition)
    consumer

    who amongst these players owes anything to the fly shop in business terms? the consumer? he has already paid for what he wanted so far. that's the transaction. done. how about the competition? ridiculous. that leaves sage, the one party with a real stake in and obligation to supporting the fly shop through loyalty, good faith, integrity, etc. and all i'm saying is, if i was the fly shop, i'd be looking at sage and wondering why they kept letting blocks of product slip into the hands of people they obviously do not know well enough to do business with reliably, while holding me to map in spite of this repeated phenomenon. if the fly shops deserve support, it's from sage. costco hasn't done something wrong. sage has released a product into the market place which, by the time it gets to costco, still has enough margin to make them money. comes with the territory when you are selling a premium product with, not REASONABLE, but GIGANTIC margins baked in.

    if people have the money and want to pay sage $800 for COGS of say $150-$200, why should anybody care?
  2. Tim Cottage Formerly tbc1415

    Posts: 1,692
    Outer Duvall
    Ratings: +248 / 1
    I think there is a larger dose of reality in this post than the last 80 posts combined.

    TC
  3. GATOR9 Hey you guys

    Posts: 608
    Yakima, Wa.
    Ratings: +18 / 0
    I for one am quite happy that we have a choice in our pursuits of joy. This is really what it is all about, choice. Chastise me if you will but If I can purchase the same thing at a savings then I damn will do so and I do indeed spread my money around, have always done so and will continue to do so, more so now that I am 65, retired and in that fixed income group as they say. Oh and the Costco in Yakima had the Sage Approach 5wt., but did ot need another one. I already have a Sage, Winston, Echo and a couple other lesser brand names for b/ups, love choices.:)
    Old Man likes this.
  4. Old Man Just an Old Man

    Posts: 21,762
    Dillon, Mt
    Ratings: +1,709 / 0
    I'm surprised that this thread on Selling a name brand of a fly rod at a big box store has gone 5 pages. Do most of you really care that they are selling Sage fly rods at Costco. Not me.
  5. Flyborg Active Member

    Posts: 2,309
    Kalama, WA
    Ratings: +602 / 0
    Yeah but you're old. You don't much care about anything at this point.
    Ed Call and bigdood like this.
  6. PT Physhicist

    Posts: 3,571
    Edmonds, WA
    Ratings: +729 / 2

    A few more threads like this one that you don't care about and you'll be up to 20k in posts......... <two thumbs up to the guy who doesn't give a sch.t>
  7. zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

    Posts: 3,232
    Moses Lake, WA
    Ratings: +1,030 / 1
    Jim can't afford a Sage so that's why he doesn't have an opinion. Actually I'm working my way into that "boat" also. Pretty soon I'll only fish rods I get at garage sales or find along the side of the road.
  8. Old Man Just an Old Man

    Posts: 21,762
    Dillon, Mt
    Ratings: +1,709 / 0
    I have a Sage rod. I just don't praise it to the heavens. I have 2 GLoomis rods. Both 2 piece. I prefer the 4 piece rods. I use the Sage to nymph fish in the winter time. It a DS2 9' 6wt.

    I'm Not over joyed on the price of fly rods. The most I paid for one was $210.00 bucks. I wouldn't pay that much now for a rod.

    The fish don't give a rats ass as to what rod and line and reel I use. If you need to spend big bucks on rods and reel it has to be a prestige thing. My loops are tight and I don't need to do many false casts to get my line out. I guess that after you have been fly fishing a while you will learn the how's and why's of fly fishing.
    smc likes this.
  9. PT Physhicist

    Posts: 3,571
    Edmonds, WA
    Ratings: +729 / 2
    Old Man, it has nothing to do with prestige. If that's what you think about people fishing with more expensive (usually better) gear then you ought to open the shades a little wider. Or, you can continue viewing life thru that little porthole you see it thru now.

    Why'd you spend a few grand on that truck rather than an old Yugo? Are you not competent enough to drive an older rig? Trying to impress the neighbors with that truck rather than an old beater? Or, are there things the truck offers that an old Yugo doesn't?

    I can fish my old ($110 when it was new) 4 wt Loomis Premier or the 6wt Lamiglas I bought in the late 80's but I'd rather cast my 4 wt Sage LL or 6wt XP. Maybe it's the years I've spent flyfishing that has given me the experience to know the difference between the two and prefer one over the other.

    Not everybody has your wealth of fly rod knowledge so maybe they are seeking out something that can never be found......?
    Eric Denny and Skysoldier like this.
  10. PT Physhicist

    Posts: 3,571
    Edmonds, WA
    Ratings: +729 / 2
    Old Man, mebbe you're just not a good enough fly caster to be able to tell the difference between a great rod and a mediocre rod....? Just like snow skiing, if you're not a great skier you can't tell the difference between good skis and bad... I always thought I skied like Steve Mahre until my bro-in-law filmed me on Crystal. Pretty much concluded I was just a hack out there wasting a good set of skis.

    Maybe you can't tell the difference between the One and a DS2. Nothing wrong with that. Hell, just because you can't tell the difference in rods doesn't mean you can't enjoy flyfishing. After all it's just about being able to get out, right?

    :)
  11. underachiever !

    Posts: 693
    suburban hell
    Ratings: +489 / 0
    Not to mention that some people might value the idea that Sage is made in their backyard. I fish all kinds of rods (all purchased used) made all over the world primarily because of my budget (or lack of it). I recognize one of the key reasons foreign rods are so affordable is the labor is a fraction of US labor.

    Old Man, if you've got children or grandchildren I'm sure you'd hope they never have to compete with a foreign workforce that would do the same work for a fraction of the price. I know I hope I never do.
  12. Danielocean Steelhead Virgin

    Posts: 1,476
    Monroe
    Ratings: +649 / 0
    The decision whether an expensive rod is worth it is clearly up the individual. Each person has there own idea of what they consider value. The problem is that people who are just fine with the lower cost rods like to shove there values down others that do not share the same value. For example, I have an old bamboo rod that sits in its case, in which I guarantee is more valuable than all of the forums rods combined. I say that because it was my fathers which has sentimental value. This is another form of value that often gets missed. So with that said a persons interpretation on value can be way different than the others. People seem to miss that. I am an amateur caster and I can tell you that I want to own a Sage one day just because of that second type of cool.
    Anil likes this.
  13. JesseC Active Member

    Posts: 1,989
    seattle, wa
    Ratings: +765 / 0
    I think we're on the same page... pretty close anyhow.

    I think it's bizzare that Sage hasn't nipped the problem in the ass. Like I mentioned, they ought to be able to identify the issue by tracking the serial numbers. I also think it's bizzare that this keeps happening to rods that are close to being discontinued. The ONE is more of a surprise to me.

    I also think it's bizzare that Costco continues to buy product from slimy distributors. They're a big company and I wouldn't think they'd be into this. But, they've been doing it for a long long time. I remember about 8 years ago they bought a couple hundred Cannondale mountain bikes and sold them for hundreds less than the specialty bike shops. Cannondale tracked down the problem and refused to honor warranties on any of the bikes.

    In summary, neither of us has enough information to come to a complete conclusion or really point a finger. Sage better get it's supply chain under control and Costco..... well.... they'll continue buying tiffany rings, fly rods, and I'm sure anything else they can churn a profit on. It's worked really well for them, they're a local company, and I can't say I blame them one bit.
  14. Porter Active Member

    Posts: 6,466
    Kenmore, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +524 / 0
    Reminder.....

    For the fly shop owner, there are threats coming from all different angles at any given time. They come from increased prices from suppliers, new competition down the street, big boxes building the mega-complex across town, and now from (would you believe) wholesale discounters, namely Costco.
    Since March 26, 2011, sixteen Costco locations in the west have been identified as stocking and heavily discounting selected Simms and Sage products. The products appear to be limited to three varying models of popular Sage Z-Axis fly rod and Simms G4 Pro Stockingfoot waders. The knee-jerk reaction Is to wonder if Simms and Sage sold direct to Costco. But, in the words of ESPN College Game Day commentator Lee Corso, “Not so fast, my friends.” It turns out that neither company sold anything to Costco. In fact, they appear to have been victimized.
    In an exclusive phone interview for this article, Marc Bale, long-time director of sales for Sage/Farbank Enterprises, stated: “We are aware of the products impacted and the Costco stores participating in selling our goods. It is factual to say that we have pinpointed the issue with a freight-forwarder that transferred the goods to Costco. The freight-forwarder has since gone AWOL. We continue to investigate.” According to Mr. Bale, Sage did not sell direct to Costco, nor had any plans to do so. It appears the vigilante freight forwarder double-crossed Sage without their permission.
    Angling Trade also interviewed Diane Bristol, director of marketing and brand management for Simms Fishing Products, and she explained that Simms learned of the issue on March 24, sent an E-blast advisory to its dealers soon thereafter, and then bought the waders from the various Costco locations at full retail price. Ms. Bristol said that Simms had identified the source of distribution to Costco, and while she opted not to give a specific identity at this time, she assured us that Simms had shut down that account. “If you are not an authorized Simms dealer, you do not carry Simms products, no matter who you are. This is an issue we take very seriously,” she said.
    The two scenarios in which Costco procured Simms and Sage inventory for their stores appears as two distinct and separate events. The same players are probably not involved in both sets of transactions – in one case, an AWOL freight forwarder played dirty poker, and in the other, an industry insider acted as a Costco pawn. But behind the scenes is apparently a more crooked and sinister player – Costco. This situation does beg a closer look at Costco’s seemingly unethical purchasing methods.
    Costco has played this hand before. The pattern: they target hot ticket items and ask the manufacturer to buy direct (with a clear message they will deep discount the item). If the manufacturer denies selling to Costco, then Costco seeks and buys sizeable inventory from third parties – dealers or shipping agents at wholesale prices, legally. The practice is called “diversion purchasing.” Richard Galanti, Costco executive vice-president and chief financial officer estimates 4 percent of the goods in Costco are diverted. Manufacturers and retailers beg to differ – claiming up to 12 percent is more realistic. The under-handed purchasing tactic may be legal, but is certainly strays far from being ethical. Just ask the myriad of companies bit by the Costco bug over the past 10 years: Packasport Car-top Carriers, Camelbak, Crocs, Janzen, Hurley, Lucky, OshKosh, Rollerblade, NordicTrack, Cannondale, Columbia Sportswear, Oakley, Rossignol, Teva and Trek have complained about the practice in the past, with several unsuccessful lawsuits. The list goes on and on. There are too many accounts and complaints on the web to cite – just google “costco diversion” and read to your heart’s content.
    The bottom line is this purchasing practice is not new and it won’t go away until legal precedence deems diversion purchasing illegal. Don’t expect that to come anytime soon. It will take more than just the fly fishing industry to implement corrective action. In the meantime, awareness and unity are the best weapons to fight unethical purchasing practices. Simms and Sage are both correcting their value chain to build in stop-gap measures to fend-off and alert them of future guerrilla purchasing by the likes of Costco and others. The fly shop owner plays a critical part of that value chain alert system to industry VIPs like Sage and Simms of future diversion purchases. Be alert, be ethical and do your part in communicating suspicious activity.
    The industry has just been preyed upon and we’ve walked away with just a scratch or two… and maybe a whole new education on how to fight off retail gorillas like Costco.
    JesseCFowl likes this.
  15. Porter Active Member

    Posts: 6,466
    Kenmore, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +524 / 0
    Now if Sage, Simms, G.Loomis and whoever else is scammed and has to invest money and time in to detective work, more money in to placing a security shipping system that prevents these type of actions, and/or buys back there items at full retail.... I want to know who pays? ;) Think! Is the Costco method actually raising the price of these goods? Hmm. :mad:
  16. _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

    Posts: 1,927
    Skagit River
    Ratings: +668 / 0
    So...did you just "divert" someone's article?
    Where could one read it? Who wrote it?
  17. Old Man Just an Old Man

    Posts: 21,762
    Dillon, Mt
    Ratings: +1,709 / 0
    I worked at Boeing for over 38 years. You don't think that they outsourced their work to Foreign country's. You bet your sweet ass they did. The things that help keep the cargo's stay somewhat warm were outsourced to Mexico. They were made very cheaply. They were called Blankets.

    I also know that parts of the body were made in Japan and some things were made in Korea. The newest plane, lots of parts are made overseas.

    They might be good parts but they took manufacturing away from America. Boeing used to build the whole A/P now they just fit the parts together.
  18. Old Man Just an Old Man

    Posts: 21,762
    Dillon, Mt
    Ratings: +1,709 / 0
    You might be right.
  19. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,126
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +787 / 1
    Well, you certainly won't be receiving an invitation to the "Occupy Costco" rally ;)
  20. Brady Burmeister Active Member

    Posts: 577
    OH
    Ratings: +155 / 0
    In the famous words of our former president - "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

    Maybe I'm an idiot or simplifying things too much, but I wouldn't expect it to be too difficult for Sage to have a purchase contract that holds the buyer(wholesaler) accountable for distribution to, let's say, Costco.
    smc likes this.