Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by WA-Fly, Jun 28, 2013.
Maybe, but probably not. Just trying my hardest to derail another thread.
i think we are pretty close too. i believe strongly that the market should determine what something is worth - even if the market is composed of suckers (which i'm not saying it is in this case). i don't think a manufacturer who gets burned by a distributor should settle things by making the consumer pay by voiding their warranty, but i guess that's their way of making costco/distributor pay. probably effective. i will say this: if i want a good fly rod, i would look to sage rather than costco. but if i want business savvy, i would look to costco rather than sage. and i appreciate both. i also appreciate the local fly shop, but i expect them to man up and know the market they are in and compete accordingly and not blame their competition or their customer when the market place feels like thunderdome.
Ooops Sorry...yes it was an article and I'm sorry I thought It was listed at the bottom.....From anglingtrade.com. I cant edit the original for some reason.
I also think it seems unfair to void the warranty. Sage didn't sell these rods for anything less than what they are worth (to Sage) so they have already made their profit. What the consumer pays is irrelevant to the warranty, in my opinion. And while most people on here are sensitive to this issue, the broader population may have no idea that Sage is supposed to be sold only by "Authorized Dealers". By not honoring warranties on goods bought at Costco, Sage would certainly run the risk of alienating their customers who made no mistake other than not knowing the provenance of the goods.
i saw the sage approach outfits in the yakima costco as well. if i remember right, about $80 cheaper than normal. only 1 left when i went the other day.
I will add a minor point here. When the Sage Z-axis rods were in stock at the Spokane Costco. Sage DID NOT buy them back. The rep said it would do no good because then the Spokane store would just get a store transfer from a Costco that hadn't sold theirs.
They did tell the local shop (me) that they could go buy all of the rods with their own money and bring the rods into inventory then Sage would give the shop credit for the difference of what they paid and the actual cost. That did not seem like a great deal at the time. Just would have tied up operating capital for a soon to be discontinued rod.
No one has brought this up now or previous posts when this situation has come up. When I had an issue with sage I turned it over to my rep.(Steve Rajeff). I would think if you had a rep that was really a rep he would go to bat for the shops as that is how he makes his living.I don't know how it is now(maybe the rep makes a killing off a big sale in his zone) but there used to be pretty close connections. Maybe all that has changed, but I would want some support from my rep! It doesn't seem like it should be the shops problem but Sages.
My nephew came over from Blllings today. We were having this conversation and he said Sage authorized a local shop to buy up all of the inventory at Costco/Billings. If true, sounds like Sage is trying to keep it right. Don't know why Costco seems so bent on this but 3 times with Sage and once with Simms not to mention Loomis. Really?, aren't there more marketable products out there?
The Sage rep did fuck all for the local (R.I.P) fly shop when the big box store moved into town because they had the Sage rods shipped over from Alberta . Yet Sage threw a hissy fit when a store in Vernon would sell a few rods on sale on Boxing Day , and severed the dealership agreement .
Jesus dude, Steve hasn't worked for Sage in at least 20 years.
Obviously someone in my position has a ‘special’ interest in this matter and I’ve been corresponding with Marc Bale (among others) at Farbank. He is aware of this thread and with his permission I am posting the following email:
Thank you for your recent email.
As I believe you are aware, Sage does not sell to Costco. That being said, however, in the past three years we have been hit by two separate instances where shipments of our products that we thought were going to legitimate sources were redirected outside of our normal distribution channel and resold to Costco. The first instance of this occurred in 2011 with a shipment of ZAXIS fly rods, and a more recent instance of it occurred in March of this year when a shipment of Sage Response Outfits and a very few ONE rods was diverted to them.
The circumstances behind both of these shipments are well known to me as I was the person most directly involved in the two transactions. I will only say that despite serious efforts to insure against them, the level of sophistication on the part of the diverters is going up, as are their energies in attempting to create further breeches in the channel. The problem, by the way, is not unique to Sage as many, many US based companies have also been impacted in recent years, with two other well known fishing/outdoor brands being hit just within the past month.
Having heard from many of our customers, we are well aware of the confusion, concern and even dismay that these circumstances create within our base of fly anglers, many of whom are frankly anywhere from surprised to shocked to see us in Costco. To them we offer our sincere apologies and best assurance that we are doing all we can think of to make sure that these instances do not occur again in the future. As always, there are many challenges in the landscape of American manufacturing, wholesaling and retailing, and the Costco issue is certainly one of them. As it won't be going away anytime soon it is therefore incumbent on us that we stay alert and out in front of the problem, to the best of our abilities.
Again, thank you for your recent email and your continued support of Far Bank and Sage.
Vice President of Sales
Who cares, it just tells you how were getting screwed by Sage and the local flyshops.
I believe it's fool me once shame on you.............. Fool me twice, Shame on me.
Your local fly shop is not screwing you! Any shop that sells you a sage rod is contractually obligated to sell it to you at that price!
Here's a question. What does it actually cost to make a Sage fly rod from the layout to the finished product. All rods are not created equal.
The products that they sell are priced high. I shop at thise shops but if i can find a better deal such as internet than thats what im gonna do. If you like spending more money on something that have at it. We are all looking for a good deal.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with what you just said! With that being said its not a local fly shops fault that items are priced like they are!
Fly shops owners aren't going to meetings with all the major companies and trying to figure out how to pull 800$ out of your pocket for a product that costs 200$. The fly shops aren't screwing you! They offer valuable insight, and help.
So I thought I'd go right to "the horse's mouth" instead of reading all the interweb discussion and opinion so I e-mailed Sage and received a prompt response from Marc Bale, VP of Sales, that was very similar to what Anil received.
In the message I received, Mr. Bale claims that that two other major outdoor product companies suffered from the same problem. Both of these companies are well known to fly fishermen. He says that "we have learned of an entire industry of people whose profession is to work as Diverters."
Yup,its been more than 20 years since I lived in West Yellowstone.I was lucky enough to have guided there for many years when it was not so commercialized and we just had fun and guided happy people that appreciated the experience. Most days there would only be a couple of boats in any one section in any one day.I could avoid seeing another boat if I wanted to.When I lived there only a few people lived there year round.Winters were beautiful and quiet(however very cold)and then came the snowmobiles of which I was also a part of.Things have changed dramatically now and I'm glad I was there when I was.I loved that part of my life.I was there when the fire hit and moved shortly after.
Steve was a fabulous rep and really worked with the shops in any way he could.Things really changed when he left Sage.Back then he was just another flyfisherman who loved what he did and was one of the guys.
Not all rods are created equal.....Budweiser vs. Iron Horse Irish Death, Ford Fiesta vs Bugatti? Very few produced items are made equal. What does it cost a boeing jet from layout to finish product....whats the mark-up? You have to be kidding me...they make how much on every plane sold.... Do you want to buy a cheaper boeing jet from Costco? Talk to them about how to fly it, the details of the plane, emergency overides...etc. OK..little off tangent but idea remains the same.
If you support this Costco thing then don't expect the fly shop guys to be around much longer to help you, and don't expect sage to be around either....if they can't have reliable and knowledgeable sales people (fly shops/guides) working the field and teaching, promoting, and selling their products then they have lost their lifeline...and well, you know, they go under or become another Powell.