Sandy Spey Clave

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Jim Riggins, Mar 9, 2011.

  1. Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

    Posts: 3,108
    Haus Alpenrosa, Lederhosenland
    Ratings: +752 / 0
    Her ladyship will have fun. I should bring a box of cigars, and we can just sit under a tree and behave-sorta!
  2. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,079
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +106 / 0
  3. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 1,895
    m-ville
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    I know what your sayin,I get the same treatment at the yarn shop!!!
  4. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,079
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +106 / 0
    YOU TOO!!!????

    Several 'bead shops' here in Ashland and I'd go there for 'fly tying materials' .... OOOOOOOOH THE LOOKS, THE "Say What's?" The valed comment about 'We usuuuusssssaaaalllly don't get Men in here?'

    Last time I left with my tail between my legs ....... Hours of 'ther-o-pee' there after.
  5. Rivertrance Spey Tripper

    Posts: 18
    My own little world
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Hey Guys,

    Thanks for your understanding. As a woman spey angler, being treated like a novelty or oddity on the river is sometimes routine. (Like the guys in the yarn and bead stores!) My prior post was a knee-jerk attempt at pointing that out for consideration. Luckily, most guys on the river have become comfortable treating gals like any other angler.

    I’m old enough to understand the Mars:Venus thing, and I know that (in reality) behind every successful woman is a man checking out her butt. I also realize that guys don’t seem to see any harm in discussing women that way, and many of the discussions on this website are proof of that. On the other hand, from the women’s perspective, that kind of conversation can be perceived as simply condescending and even creepy (and the dearth of woman participants on this forum may also be a reflection of that).

    Women who follow this sport seriously enough to pursue spey casting and steelhead fishing are simply passionate about the rivers, fish and sport-- just like the rest of the guys-- and hope to be treated that way. Discussions that objectify your sister anglers as oogle-worthy (instead of peers) in this type of a PUBLIC forum perpetuates the perception that treating women anglers as novelties is still publicly acceptable.

    The fact that the organizers of the event choose to offer a separate “women’s day” as a means of reaching out to more women to participate somewhat underscores the issue. I appreciate seeing notes from guys who look forward to sharing this event and sport with their daughters/wives/girlfriends. Although I’m not a fan of the separate-but-equal message that a “women’s” day sends to the angling community, it’s good to see that a non-intimidating environment has been created for those who may not participate otherwise. Overall, I totally agree with Sandspanker that it would be good to have a workshop day for ALL beginners instead of a gender-specific clinic -- which in the end continues to reinforce the impression of “otherness” between the guys and gals.

    O.K. – now I promise to crawl under my rock and revert back into lurk-mode for a while. Thanks for listening.

    Fishful Thinking,
    --KIM--
  6. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,079
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +106 / 0
    Kim, if you'll excuse my choice of words, but for the sake of brevity, you are NOT at any level of 'risk' here. 'Sex' has nothing to do with it, the 'Greater We' take care of our own. Will some, on occasion, post something that makes me raise an eyebrow? On occasion, but that the exception 'That proves the Rule?'

    "You/I/we may agree to disagree," but leave it at that. Want to take 'that to a different level?' Take it to PM's as 99% of us aren't the least bit interested in reading a 'pissing contest.'

    Just my .02 cents.

    Fred

    fae
  7. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,281
    Your City ,State
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    Kim,

    Your message is a timely reminder, and I think you're being a good sport about it. I doubt anyone here wants to intimidate women to the point of not attending. I didn't attend Sandy last year when they first introduced the women's instruction sessions. The organizers are doing it again, so it must have gotten some positive feedback.

    And it's fine to lurk if you want, but if you have something to say I hope you'll just hammer your keyboard and hit "reply."

    Sg
  8. Grayone Fishin' to the end, Oc.P

    Posts: 1,307
    boring, oregon
    Ratings: +99 / 0
    This will be the third year......lots-o-men and lots-o-women will attend on Friday. Never any issues that I have seen. Mark Bachman does this so women will not be intimidated. He has found it brings more women to the event. As far a having a mixed beginners day...I thought that the whole clave idea was to make all feel comfortable, it is a mixed beginners day.

    We used to teach fly casting on my pond. We started with husband and wife combos. For the most part it did not work well. Women learn differently than men. Men know it all, women normally do what the instructor asks with no preconceived ideas. Men over power and women underpower. So we went to women only....it worked much better.
    None of the above is meant to slight women. I raised two daughters that are very sucessfull at what they do. I have coached girls in two differnt sports.
    Kim, you are welcome anytime on any stream that I am on.
  9. Rivertrance Spey Tripper

    Posts: 18
    My own little world
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    No ill-will or pissing contest was intended on my part. My intent was simply to point out that there are occassionally things that get posted on this forum that many guys don't realize can be offensive to women. I was simply seizing what seemed like a teachable-moment. (Maybe I just lurked too long, and my hackles got ruffled a bit too emphatically.) The Sandy Clave is a great event and I appreciate everyone who contributes and participates to make it happen. Thanks for the discussion. I'll see y'all there.

    Peace,
    --KIM--
  10. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,818
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +10 / 0
    I'll be there, showing solidarity with my sistahs. Busting the long string.
    I'll be the ugly dude in a blue kilt. Pardon the knobby knees. And the poor accessorizing. I don't know shyte. But if you can cast, you're my sistah.
  11. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,079
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +106 / 0
    Shalom. (Hope I spelled that right.)

    For the Fora's context, I,and Bob Larsell, dreamed this one up: Sandy River Spey 'Clave (bye the bye the proper spelling is 'Clave as it's a word contraction). (No kidding, you can easily look that one up .. look at Mark's 2005 notes and you'll see a short background.)

    The full word is "Conclave," or a gathering if you will.

    "Who" would attend was never even a passing thought for either of us; we are a group of dedicated fisher/men-women with really long rods in our hands. Sooo, he/she can launch a line 20 yards further? Does anyone really care if the fish are sitting half that distance from your toes?

    Just thoughts from an old guy.
    :>)
  12. sandspanker Member

    Posts: 314
    Camas
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    So with the free casting clinic on Friday. Is that a women only thing? Or will I get looked at funny if I bring my waders and rod to try and learn more about my casting?? fishing?? Thanks please feel free to PM if you wish
  13. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,079
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +106 / 0
    Friday, as I understand it, really is oriented toward the ladies. I'm sure there's no problem if the guys want to sit on the beach and observe. All the Friday instructors will be well known lady casters. Idea (I suspect) is to get more women involved in the sport.

    A good thing I think.

    fae
  14. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,079
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +106 / 0
  15. sandspanker Member

    Posts: 314
    Camas
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    by reading that link it says nothing about women only so I plan on bringing the rod and wades and stuff. I really would like to learn and don't have the money for a lesson or two. seems like a good chance to learn. It is the only reason I am planing on taking the day off of work. If it will be frowned on then I'll work .
  16. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 767
    wa
    Ratings: +40 / 0
    Just work, take the money you make for the day...the money you are willing to give up... and sign up for one of the Fly Shop's Spey casting classes. The classes will be more one on one and you'll have more face time with the instructor. They also do hourly spey casting lessons have a 4hr min I think, check their website for details on the class or lessons.
  17. golfman65 dude...

    Posts: 1,480
    blaine wa.
    Ratings: +86 / 0
    Is everyone camping or any staying in hotels? I'm being scolded for not going so think it's time to head down but will not camp...good chance to take off to salem for the evening and see my youngest at school as well..

    Cool to be there Sat. and Sun. or is one day enough?
  18. Nooksack Mac Active Member

    Posts: 1,914
    Bellingham, WA, USA.
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    I was there once, a decade or so ago. Driving out from Portland, I remember it as rural terrain, without facilities. Portland may be the closest hotels/motels/restaurants.
  19. stewart dee Guest

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    Ratings: +0 / 0
    sounds great!
  20. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,079
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +106 / 0
    Friday is 'Ladies Day,' Sat/Sun are for 'everyone.' And not to worry about learning how to cast a two-hander. If you ask, you'll have/get a ton of free lessons for the assembled group of 'Good Guys.' As for fishing at Oxbow Park the best place (personal opinion here) is at the top end of the Park just above the boat launch. (Bye the bye, from the main gathering place to the boat launch is quite a hike. Oxbow is one damned big Park.

    As for 'food,' it appears that ONLY Friday morning doesn't have breakfast/lunch/dinner provided by one Sponsor or another.

    As for 'housing' Mark's got a special deal (see flyfishusa's web site for contact info) going with some hotel. Don't know what the 'rack rate' will be, but it would be better than what you'd get if you just called in and made a reservation.
    fae