Sauk report/warning

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Kristin, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    I do know someone who caught a person breaking into their car on the Stilly.

    He brandished a gun and that was enough to defuse the situation and hopefully scare that lurker from trying to rob a fisherman's car again.
     
  2. CoastalCutt

    CoastalCutt Member

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    I'm glad to hear that that was all it took. MAny thieves pack heat themselves. Let's all pray none of us are ever faced with that situation.
     
  3. Abel1

    Abel1 New Member

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    I would think that our rigs are still safer out in the bush than parked in a shopping mall lot or downtown anywhere?
     
  4. SeaRun Fanatic

    SeaRun Fanatic Member

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    I had to edit this post because I was responding emotionally to all the John Wayne'isms. What a concept... reason trumps emotion.
     
  5. Nooksack Mac

    Nooksack Mac Active Member

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    Some thoughts:

    1. Would a bank guard who shot a bank robber fleeing with a bag of stolen money, or a store owner who did the same to a thief fleeing with stolen merchandise (of significant value) be prosecuted? I think not.

    2. I've read somewhere that WA has established law that when a criminal is fleeing from the site of the crime he's just committed, that is part of the ongoing crime, so the owner can use deadly force to stop the criminal.

    2-a. As legal advice, disregard 2. It's third-hand hearsay. I'm not an attorney, and even if I was, you're not my clients, so I have no right to advise anyone through this forum. Still, it's interesting, and I hope that someone who's qualified can, er, advise us.

    3. If you ever have occasion to try to break up a robbery at gunpoint, but you're not prepared to shoot, should the thief get beligerant - DON'T! As the old outlaw said in the western movie "Bad Company": "The longer you stand around pointing a gun, the worse your situation gets to be."
     
  6. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Mac,

    I reviewed WA state law on this a few months back. It might have been presented in a thread on this BB; I can't recall. Maybe a bank guard or store owner can shoot a fleeing robber, but I don't think a fisherman whose car has been broken into can - unless he can produce clear, cogent, and convincing evidence that his life was at risk. The law seems vague enough that with an ambitious prosecutor and the right jury, a guy just trying to protect himself and his property can be sent to prison.

    Sg
     
  7. jasmillo

    jasmillo Member

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    Everybody seems to have ignored this post but it is worth reading. I myself have led a fairly tame life having not experimented with anything much stronger than tequila but the fact is that "tweakers" are addicts. Most are probably good people who experimented, and got hooked. In fact, I suspect that 95% of folks who post on this board are a gene or two away from being addicts themselves, whether it be alcohol, whatever...
    Not to say you should stand by and smile while someone ravages your vehicle but understand, you may have be one good decision (the time you decided not to take that hit in college???) away from being that tweaker yourself.

    Sorry Chris Puma;) but if given the opportunity, I probably would kill somebody, rather uncomfortably I might add, if they raped or murdered my wife or future children (don't have any yet).
    However, I would probably just react to a tweaker breaking into my car by saying....BOOO! WHAT THE F' ARE YOU DOING? GET THE F' OUT OF HERE. Maybe give them a quick in the ass as they ran off. If they got physical, of course you would have to protect yourself just as in any other situation.

    Do you honestly think killing or seriously hurting a tweaker will keep other desperate addicts from stealing valuables from your car? If you do, you are sorely mistaken and don't understand the power of addiction.
     
  8. CoastalCutt

    CoastalCutt Member

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    Amen brotha.
     
  9. knothead

    knothead Banned or Parked

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    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050

    Threat of grave bodily harm upon your person or someone in your company.

    Now you can shoot whomever you want, just be willing to do the time.

    All you gun packing cowboys might want to take a course in self-defense before you strap on those 50,45,44 caliber hand guns.

    Gun ownership is not synonmous with good gun handling. Learn how to properly use any weapon or you are going to get hurt.

    As for those of you whom guide in the area, why have you not developed a network of locals you can depend on to sit in areas such as launches and takeouts? I would imagine that there must be some local guys willing to make some extra cash on a weekend, watching cars. By all means patronize local stores, resturants, and fueling stations to develope a repoire with locals. Don't be a bunch of elitist pricks on someone elses turf.

    A buddy of mine owns property over in the Blues, on the Grande Rhonde. He and his network of locals know where everyone is, that means you, at any given time, and are in radio contact with each other always. They do it mostly to prevent poaching, but they also do it to protect each others property. They know where you are at, at all times.
     
  10. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    I think drug addicted folks need to be treated as sick people and not criminals.

    That said, criminal actions of those sick people should in no way be excused.

    My personal feelings are that the general society in the US is a large part of the problem because it is so brutal in regards to the person with the drug addiction. They makes it extremely humiliating and embarrassing to seek help or treatment by ostracizing the sick people and reducing the attractive options to zero for the afflicted by pushing them into a position with zero social dignity or respect after their difficult admission to seek help.

    There is no tempered judgement in shooting someone who is breaking into your car unless your life is threatened. Pay the insurance deductable and ask the courts to seek a judgement on your behalf (your insurance will most likely do that anyways even if you dont). Don't pull the trigger on some sick kid.
     
  11. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    I'd have to disagree with that one. It seems in our country if a person makes a mistake, admits to it, and seeks help they'll usually get a free pass. We as a society seem to have a pretty short memory.

    I also think as a society we pretty much try to find excuses for people's poor behavior. Blaming their actions on a poor upringing or any number of factors. I do understand those factors have molded a person into who they are. But, until we hold people accountable for their actions rather than make excuses for them they will not learn the hard lessons it takes in life to change their bahavior.
     
  12. Richard Olmstead

    Richard Olmstead BigDog

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    PT-
    I respectfully disagree. Consider how many states have either complete and permanent or partial (and hard to remedy) prohibition from voting by ex-cons who have served their time and have reintegrated into society. That is a particularly egregious example of a state-sanctioned ostracism and humiliation. In my opinion, it reflects our society's lack of compassion towards those who have made mistakes in their past.
    D
     
  13. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    I'll grant you that one. Not really sure which side I'd take on that. Some decisions a person makes cause consequences that last a life time. I'm not going to say it's sad but true. Because I'm not really sure it is sad. Just true.
     
  14. TrevorH

    TrevorH Active Member

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    I would have to say that all of the previous posters are right in part. I would agree that society's view of drugs and drug users is generally divisive and furthers the sense of seperation or isolation on the part of the user. The user has been 'rejected' by the group, often based on his/her use alone. There is a fairly new movement (last 10 years) within the medical community that takes the view that addiction is an illness that can and should be treated. The difficulty with the approach of the medical community is that the docs are armed to the hilt with tools that can alleviate withdrawal of most drugs (they are all different), calm anxiety, rebalance seretonin levels, etc... What they are unable to do is give somebody a pill for making poor choices in a moral dilemma. For behavior modification, the user gets pushed into therapy, 12-step programs being the most common. The bulk of the work done in a 12-step program is aimed at getting the person to take responsibility for how they have effected the lives of others. Naturally, this comes after getting them to see the role drugs/alcohol have played, and other intermediary steps, but the 'cured' are only those that go through the motions necessary to reintergrate into society, their families, etc...

    I smoked pot for the first time when I was 10yrs old, and between then and now I have experimented with, used, and abused more different kinds of drugs and alcohol than most. What I have not experimented with is making more than minor 'adjustments' to my basic moral fiber to further the cause of getting high. The only adjustments I could really be accused of making are being indifferent to the reservations of those I care about and failing the benchmark of 'industriousness' on a few occasions. I would put my sense of civility, humanity, and fairplay, and, in fact, most of my sensibilities up against anyones'.

    Since I need to wrap it up here, I'm gonna cut to my perspective. There is a WORLD of difference between a guy who goes to work and earns the money to pay for his high, who holds himself to a basic standard of harmlessness to his fellow man, and who is an otherwise law-abiding citizen and the sh*tbags who are breaking into peoples' cars, be it for drug money or anything else. Anyone who seriously thinks that shooting said sh*tbag is justified is truly ill themselves and needs to spend some time reflecting on the underlying causes of their obviously 'hightened' emotional state and consider the notion of proportionality in reaction. That said, if I saw someone whose vehicle was broken into standing over the 'perp' watching him spit his teeth out, I would feel pretty comfortable with the outcome.
     
  15. Chris Puma

    Chris Puma hates waking up early

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    my bad, somehow i interpreted your posts differently. i will read closer next time.

    i do not fish certain sections of rivers because i could not handle my car getting broken into. i am not mature enough to let it go.
     
  16. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    EXACTLY!!!

    And this is why it enrages us hard workers to no end.

    Life is NOT easy and some days my life is downright hellish but I keep going and I am happy most of the time (especially when fishing).

    The money comes hard and monotonously and when somebody tries to steal my stuff that I bought with said money, I pretty much LOSE MY MIND.

    I have been ripped off numerous times at my home, in my car (not while fishing though) and lost some of my favorite things (like a guitar) that keep me trudging through the shit storm times of my life (As Mr. Lahey would put it).

    I feel sympathy for drug addicts to some extent but most of the ones I have seen and known are usually spoiled kids, or dumbass kids, who refuse to cross the bridge from childhood to adulthood (I don't believe in adolescence because you don't know shit until you pay ALL you bills yourself with money you earned on your own). They were not poor, they were not even dumb, just slackers and it is those slackers with idle hands that get heavily into drugs and become leeches to all of us.

    Sure addiction is an illness but when will they classify laziness as an illness and unemployment as an illness et cetera.

    I chuckle when I am at a party and I hear someone with dreadlocks bitching about how there are no good jobs in Bellingham as if they should have a right to work in someone's business while stinking and being high and pretty much being totally unattractive (unemployable).

    I think there is something wrong with part of my generation. No drive, no interest in work, AND they think they have a right to do nothing except feed their pleasure centers.

    To the man who got clean, that is wonderful. If only every idiot who smoked meth or heroine could take that same leap and give up unwarranted pleasure, I am sure it is unbelievable hard and that is exactly why I never tried any of that shit.
     
  17. Les Johnson

    Les Johnson Les Johnson

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    There isn't really very much we can do about having our vehicles ransacked and cleaned out. LE everywhere will tell you that they cannot put any time or energy into investigative work. They don't dust an automobile for prints, or even ask around local businesses to pick up information. In other words, it ain't "Law & Order" out there along the river banks. It is however in my opinion paramount that all break-ins are reported to fish and wildlife enforcement, local and state police in hopes that a high enough stack of paperwork will eventually translate into additional funding for law enforcement at all levels. Catching thieves and tossing them in jail is one method of reducing such crimes that does work.
    As for packing a sidearm, you had better be handy with it and prepared to use it once you draw. The thief you catch may also be packing and just might not hesitate to shoot you first. And remember, once a bullet leaves the barrel of a gun, it cannot be taken back.
    I believe that the people doing this vandalizing and thievery are in most respects, products of their environment...and I am not saying this to give them an excuse. I would dearly love to see them hauled off to jail in handcuffs, along with the people who raised them to feel that they have a right to other peoples' property.
    My 2-cents,
    Les Johnson
     
  18. jasmillo

    jasmillo Member

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    I agree with you for the most part. There are quite a few adults who are just lazy and don’t want to cross over into adulthood and quite a few spoiled rich kids who have the time and the money to waste on drugs. There are also a ton of non-tweaker teenagers breaking into cars and stealing stuff just because they can.

    However, a true addict is different. I know of a few people that I am very close to (family members/ friends) who were serious addicts/alcoholics. Three in particular were hardcore sh$%h$%ds when they were addicts. They were absolutely awful people who did awful things. However, once they got cleaned up (and prior to becoming addicts) they became model citizens, literally. Work extremely hard, support their families, wouldn’t steal a thing or hurt a fly. Some of the nicest and trustworthy people I know. They were just hooked beyond their ability to cope with it and eventually needed help to kick it.

    I know for a fact they would have stolen things to get their next fix. I also know they would have felt guilty as hell after doing it but the pull of the drug was so strong it didn’t matter. Folks in this state of mind will not be deterred by acts of violence, arrest, etc.
     
  19. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    "Folks in this state of mind will not be deterred by acts of violence, arrest, etc."

    And therein lies the perverse entertainment value in thinking of them getting beaten to such a pulp that they can't walk, or being shot and killed. It's the only effective deterrent. That's why we sometimes think about it.
     
  20. Jason Wood

    Jason Wood Guest

    I think half the reason people like to act like assholes anymore is that most people have never had a good ole ass-beating. There are no real physical consequences anymore. Most people would probably behave themselves if they thought they might get punched in the face. I've given and taken beat downs, and there are definitely things I'd rather be doing, like fishin' or making hanky-panky with the wife.:thumb:
     

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