Scadden vs Outcast

Discussion in 'Watercraft' started by golfman44, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. OK I'm getting this. Ill just get a nice climbing rope and tie onto bass turds toon while he pulls me around. Then i can just chill in the tube sipping beers and critize his rowing
     
  2. Never been interested in kayaking... But I could totally get in to extreme river tubing.
     
    Jerry Daschofsky likes this.
  3. I don't think so.
     
    Bill Aubrey likes this.
  4. Scott is dead on about Dave's innovative contributions. In fact, if you want to see an early picture of the Outcast Commander, check out Dave's book "Fishing Untouched Waters" published in 2000. In it are somewhere between 25-50 pics (and one on the cover) of Dave and his wife Cailin fishing or running whitewater in a boat he designed that is the ancestor of the Commander. He now produces a similar boat. Outcast and Dave both build quality boats. Check them both out. And enjoy.
     
  5. Well, some would argue that the ancestor of the Commander is an old Outcast model that I've got in my garage. The hull is nearly identical but the features/trim are different and they added oars, something I begged them to do over 10 years ago. Outcast also produced it for Scadden and I've got one of those too. I have heard it was designed when Dave worked with/at Outcast and how much he had to do with it depends on who you talk to.
     
  6. It was when Dave worked with Outcast. I'll go with the innovator on who designed it.
     
  7. You know I don't intend to go too far off topic here Bill but Ford innovated/invented the modern assembly line, and Toyota perfected it. In fact Toyota perfected it so well that it lead to the creation of "the Toyota way" otherwise known as Lean manufacturing & Lean concepts - a methodology/philosophy that has been studied and implement in thousands of companies over the world which has helped turn them around and become more profitable/efficient. If we used your logic we'd all be buying Fords even though Ford themselves is implementing many Lean procedures into their business practices to become more profitable.

    You know I remember working for a company where a now buddy of mine was the supervisor. He told me how he bought a new truck and he got a drop in bed liner with it. I asked why he never went with a spray in as there were many advantages to them and I explained them to him. Well he went back to the dealership and talked to their accessories guy and the guy said he would give him a call in a day about a potential exchange/credit to get him into a spray in bed liner on his new truck. Well the call never came, and man was he pissed. He was never going to go the dealers again, talked about writing letters, overall just choked that the guy never called. I never heard the end of it for a week. Meanwhile we are at work together and I went to a house (we are plumbers/gasfitters) as I had to do a service call and this service call ended up with several upsells I made, all that had to happen was our estimator/designer had to put some stuff on paper that I explained quite clearly to him in writing what the customer was looking for. This was ALL I could do as this was the structure the company had for this type of thing. Well our designer/estimator promised he'd have something ready in two days and he never ended up following through and we lost the sale. It was almost guaranteed money for us too but this was a very similar situation to what my buddy described only he was the customer. Well I heard about it a couple days later after I asked our estimator how it went and after finding out how bad he dropped the ball even though I made it clear to him he only had a couple days and he said he would follow through, I complained to my buddy who I worked who was my supervisor with who had the bed liner incident. Well right away he starts launching into that you don't understand that the estimator was busy, or might have been swamped or had this on the go - making excuses almost in a patronizing fashion. I tried to make him see the connection between himself and the customer who never got the quote from us and he just didn't see it.

    The bottom line is you can apologize poor customer service all you want, you can talk about what a great person someone is, how awesome they are at they do, but if he doesn't deliver, or support his product, or execute when the time comes it is seriously damaging his reputation. Some people want their boats to come in a timely fashion with their order fulfilled properly, they want product support in a timely fashion, and they don't just buy a boat, they buy a boat ownership experience. Companies like Outcast & Bucks understand quite well that is about an ownership experience. Other guys don't GET IT YET!
     
    jessejames and PT like this.
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  9. I'd take my scadden X5 over anything I have seen from outcast or bucks...only exception would be a toon I saw on here a year or so ago called the steel header? 12' tubes basic looking toon but bet it would go through just about anything...still trying to find that thread and boat
     
  10. Golfman,

    Check out steelheader.com.
     
  11. Thanks...now that could very well be my next boat...I think the scaddens, outcast, buck bags, etc. all kind of fall into the same similar category...then there are these and there is another one that is pretty close....these you could use just about anywhere and be safe...
    Damn I want one of the 10' ones!!!
     
  12. I'd take a 10' Outcast PAC1000 over a boat built on cheap glued tubes any day. Back in the day, Steelheader made great boats until, IMHO, they switched to the same crappy imported tubes all the custom frame builders are using. Buying a boat for the frame is like buying a car for the tires and fancy rims. You will have 2 sets of replacement tubes under that frame before the Outcast tubes even begin to show their age, and even then, they will keep on ticking.

    And if you want a custom or sweet stock boat with an awesome frame, get a hold of BDD and look at a Catchercraft boat. If I didn't already have a PAC 1100, I'd look at one of their frames with the optional JPW tubes, which are made in the US and are some of the best made anywhere.
     
  13. I have fished from a Super Fat Cat since it first came out and it was my favorite platform, even with the hard foam seat and backrest. But I have upgraded to an NFO Outlaw Escape and it is a pleasure to fish from and much less tiring. Inflates in five minutes, honestly. The seat really works well and is much more comfortable than the SFC. I bought the inflatable seat and back rest for the SFC but they do not have enough rigidity so you end up needing a front strut somewhere to make up for the rigid foam seat.
    The Escape is very solid in waves and with an extended foot rest it rows quite easily and makes crossings much quicker than kicking the Super Fat Cat. I did not like the detached gear bags but have gotten to like them better as I have adapted and now I can store them in my van and leave the tube outside when I am camping. Pretty convenient. I have not had any requirements for Customer Service from either company.
     
    Blue likes this.
  14. Just stumbled on the Catchercraft site (http://www.catchercraft.com). Anyone with any experience with these?
     
  15. When I bought my Outcast Pac 1100, through some correspondance with Outcast just before the purchase, I was offered the oppurtunity to upgrade the 11' toons that come with the Pac 1100 FS to the ones they used when they still made the Pac 1100 HD a few years back for a bit more $$$ (I never did this, but I'm sorta kicking myself for not doing it, but no biggy, I don't anticipate having any problems with my 'toons in the near future and I have a good repair kit and a spare bladder should something ever happen, which I doubt it will, plus a 10 year no fault warranty on the 'toons too). The Pontoons that come with the Pac 1100 I have are slightly thinner PVC outer's with single Urethane bladder per pontoon (with Leafield valves). The ones that came on the Pac 1100 HD had slightly thicker PVC outers with dual bladders per pontoon fore/aft, again with Leafield valves for each bladder obviously. The Pac 1100 HD pontoons are essentially made to the same quality/thickness/specifications/durability as all the cataraft toons in the entire AIRE line up which has pretty much dual bladders per 'toon and the same thickness PVC outers. If you've done some research you'll find the AIRE 'toons are pretty damn robust and utilize more by whitewater enthusiasts who put them into some serious water. If you're using the boat, this is a good way to go.
     
  16. SpeyFitter, I have the HD pontoons; they are awesome!
     
    SpeyFitter likes this.
  17. You lucky SOB! I can't complain though - I don't anticipate having any issues with my Pac 1100 FS 'toons. They're pretty damn well built and tough to boot. IF something does happen like I said I got several fall back plans (I like to be prepared - if you drift with me I got ya covered LOL) from an on the river get me through the rest of day plan/repair kit/approach, to a permanent repair on a big trip plan (got an Aire/outcast repair kit plus some Stabond glue), to a I don't need the boat for a 1-2 weeks, I'll ship the 'toons to Outcast for repair plan (i.e. warranty). Somehow, unless I'm fishing bony rivers a lot, I don't think I'll have any issues (knock on wood).

    Having said that, I've already been pondering an NRS frame with AIRE Wave Destroyer toons. I can dream can't I? Those 'toons look awesome!
     
  18. This is myself on my Pac 1100 crashing through a class 3 wave on a pontoon boat course I took with Chilliwack River river rafting over a month ago (On the Chilliwack River). It was a blast!

    [​IMG]
     
    Freestone likes this.
  19. Well, I also have an NRS frame on the 13' WildCat/PAC1200 tubes. The frame is heavy though so I am going to try the PAC1100 frame on the 13' tubes for some whitewater play.
     
  20. Do you have the Pac 1100 FS frame or the HD frame? The HD frame was heavier (and heavier duty obviously). I'm happy with the FS Frame - it's a very well designed, lightweight, yet decently robust frame.
     

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