Discussion in 'Watercraft' started by biere.froide, Oct 7, 2013.
Says it all.
And... of course 'blue" liked your post. Anything, anytime, anywhere Scadden, we'll be there. Is this a cult?
Disclaimer: I actually own a scadden boat.
Wow, jumping Blue for a simple statement of facts, the only one here by the way, that answered the original post. Incredible! You guys taking civility lessons from D.C.? And PT, we always see you on a Scadden thread, but you've never mentioned how many of his products you've owned. And, no body has ever accused me of failing to use foul language; far from it. But, guys, try to remember that women and children come to this site for information on our sport. Let's try to keep the discourse out of the XXX movie houses.
Hey Bill, I'm pretty sure I answered the original poster, too. .... yup, just double checked: I responded directly to the OP's query. I am a NFO boat owner, and I have spent a lot of time talking to Dave. As a member of the outdoor media, I fully realize my experiences in customer service don't fully represent what the average customer will experience (I know that, as a gear review specialist, businesses typically realize that I can -- to some degree -- influence buying decisions). That said, I would agree that Dave S. doesn't have the best customer service record in the business. He doesn't employ enough people to address queries promptly and he doesn't empower the employees he has to make customer-service-related decisions. But he does produce a nice product and he does have a great record of quality innovation. Bottom line, in my opinion, if you buy a boat from Dave, you'll get a good product, but if you have questions about if after purchase, but you might not get a prompt response -- you will get a response, but it might not be prompt.
After considerable time talking with Dave, I consider him a great innovator and a good guy, but not a great business man. Just my $0.02. To all the chest-thumping enthusiasts and especially, all you fire-breathing haters (PT?), I'd ask, "How much time have your spent actually talking to the man, and how much of your emotional response to the man and his products is based on internet postings?"
My bad, Dan. You did indeed address the issue. I shall chide myself, also. Great post.
Not a hater. Almost bought an NFO boat or two. Still considering it because certain boats would have a place in my arsenal but I'd never deal with NFO in any purchase. I've written my dealings with the company before so won't rehash it. Go back if you want to see my experiences with the company.
As for my comments.... A guy comes on here calling people a bunch of pinheads for even bringing up this topic. The guy is pretty much fair game after that. Refers to Dave as a "great man" which only means one thing. He has a personal relationship and is just on here to insult people for commenting on this topic. People's follies get lambasted all over this site whether its part of a thread or a hijack. This was just another in a list that was brought up. Like it or not, a series of missteps by such a great man and wonderful company is going to get some attention. If a company wanted to keep their name out of the spotlight, they very easily could.
Scadden threads don't happen on a number of forums because of the great service they provide nor do many other companies get praised because they do what any company is supposed to do. They happen because of peoples experience, and it's usually the bad stuff that makes for entertaining reading. NFO has supplied plenty of quality material to this and many other forums.
As long as the apologists continue trying to discredit people who have had legitimate poor experiences with NFO, I'll continue to be a presence. When there is no more material for the "haters", these threads will go away.
I see your point but on the flip side, the whole debate is about his products. As a potential consumer of said products I'd much rather rely on reviews/insight that other consumers have as opposed to Dave's view, seeing as he is just a salesmen at that point.
There's a reason entities like Consumer Report influence car sales so much. People would much rather get their information from CR than they would from a Toyota salesman. The same thing can be applied to Dave's boats...
Agreed. THat's one reason I've been proud to be a gear review specialist (*Including working for Consumer Reports) for the last 23 years. Indeed, that was part of my point -- the NFO/Scadden products generally are innovation and of high quality. The only true knock on the company is that they can be slow to respond to customer requests/feedback. Product-wise, they get top marks from this independent product reviewer. Customer service-wise, they get average/low-average (C- grade) marks.
We know from prior experience that most of the negative comments on Scadden boats have come from people who never owned one or dealt with the company. The best example I can think of is River Runner--surely you guys remember that fool. It turned out he was a wanna be competitor that really disappointed all of his purchasers.
Lately, there were some complaints about upgraded oars--the suppliers could not keep up with demand and the middleman-Dave-was caught in the middle.
I bought my first Scadden pontoon boat--a Madison River--about 10-11 years ago at the Puyallup Show. I looked at several manufacturer's products and his was clearly the best looking boat and the best deal. It came in less than 2 weeks and the electric pump I bought would not fit the valve. I called Dave for advice and he said he's send me an adapter that would fit my pump. I suggested he bring it to the Bellevue Fly Fishing Show and he did. So, no complaint there, right?
A few years ago, I ordered a Rampage. Dave knew I had a trip coming up and was slammed on orders. I shortly received a large package with a personal note from Dave that said " Bill, I can't get the Rampage to you in time for your trip so here is a Challenger. Enjoy the upgrade on me. After the trip, if you still want the Rampage, we'll swap." Yeah, he's a real jerk alright.
I have or have had at least 6 of Dave's products and have had absolutely no problems or complaints. He builds a quality product, and yeah, he's a good guy.
And, Randall, as a professional salesperson, I can promise you that one of the great things that can happen to us is also one of the worst. Many times, I have been in a model home talking with one person or family at the expense of another. You try to help everyone but it is not always possible at the same time. Try looking at some other exhibits and coming back at a less busy time. Or, maybe when I went by to see Derek and Link and their gorgeous Streamtech boats, I should have gotten bent out of shape because they had other people looking. I just moved on and came back a little later and bummed a beer. Sportsman's Shows are long days for all of these guys and they last 5 long days. Let's give them a break.
Those Portland beer cops are nosy little buggers!
PT: once again you prove my point. Even the average idiot knows there is a huge differnce calling someone a "great guy" as opposed to a "great man", except you. FYI...I have never talked with Dave, but have been around his booth during boat shows. I don't bother someone just to be a 'tire kicker' or have my kids run around his booth when they are busy with customers. My opinions come from several local friends who have had nothing but good things to say about him and his products. The only "topic" was people jumping on him for his website being down less than 24 hours: J.J.=Got to be kidding me!!!!! Speyfitter=spindoctoring/politician. Let's not forget Sleezen with his typical intelligent response=Bahaha...this from a college graduate and the same guy who calls Blue a liar after all of her gracious help. WFF has had this site down many times, do you think the other local fishing sites trash the Scoones? I don't think so. Then you say I am on here just to insult people who comment on this 'topic'....which topic are you referring to? The all encomposing one where you promise to jump in just to show your 'presence'? Most everyone on this board knows you and you are the one eager to insult and degrade others, as you continue to prove.
Believe me, I get that, but when you're the fist person there...that really shouldn't happen. FYI, I did happen to stop by several times (albeit, he was 'busy' each time). I'm not 'bent out of shape' about it. It is what it is, bad customer service. No more, no less. I've seen many posts that say he's a great innovator but a poor businessman. Well, part of owning your own business means that you'd better be good at both in order to have the most successful business possible. If he's not such a great businessman, then perhaps he should hire someone who is. (unless he thinks he is, in which case ego can be a bad thing)
So tell me, what is the purpose of even having a booth at a Sportsman's show? to get clients, right? How do you get clients? with good customer service. (I would think that this is even more important for a company that doesn't have a retail store) So no, I can't let it slide. Bottom line, I did not get good customer service.
You can speak for the board if you'd like. Whether it's true or not..... Well, must be as you said it is.
I'll say it again. The only reason I jumped in on my first Scadden discussion was because the apologists trying to outright discredit anyone who had a bad word to say about NFO. I found it a bit cult like as stated before. You have done nothing but reinforce that. I'm glad you've had great service from the great guy. I have no reason to believe he is anything but a nice guy. People don't stay in business for the long term if they continually screw people. I don't think this is the case with NFO. I just think there is much to be desired in some aspects. When people come on here who have personal relationships with a business man and defend to the point of going after the messenger, it gets pretty old. As do my posts to those of you who get tired of my ramblings.
There are reasons these topics happen regarding some companies and not others. It's not just a couple people continually stirring the pot. Jump in, start calling people pinheads because they find it humorous. That's all it was. A bit of humor and another apologist gets their underwear twisted.
How can you call me a spin doctor for reporting my own personal observations as is? I did my research and found info that I based my buying decision on. I bought and am happy. You are running your mouth and keyboard a bit much to have the credibility to make these statements.
River Runner was a tool and not taken seriously by anyone. His agenda was obvious. Pretty sure we all saw it.
." I'm glad you've had great service from the great guy." PT, You seem to have trouble comprehending the written word: I just told you that I have never met the man nor have had any dealings with him. Get a clue!
Randall, if that's the case, you both lost. Dave lost a sale and you lost a chance to own a good boat. A few years ago, I was manning the FFF booth at the Puyallup show. I was alone, we hit a busy period, and I "ignored" a couple while answering questions from others. I know because they complained to another guy. And in real estate, I lost a sale to a couple who had come by earlier, left, made a decision and came back. When they did, I was with a couple who were looking and very insistent on asking questions. They ended up not buying and the other couple left because I would not dump them and deal with the returners. What do you do? 99% of the time you can handle multiple people at once, but some slip away. Trust me, I wasn't happy, but it's life.
Scott, go read that post over again until you actually understand it, no matter how many times it take you. I just quoted what you wrote. I never said you were a 'spindoctor', I actually inferred you were a pinhead for even bothering to make the reply that you did when all the original guy wanted to know was what happened to the site, I am the only one that told him when it came back on. So how much sense does your post now make? I'm done.
Yeah, that probably sums it up. Now, I'm pretty much set on the Commander. I think it'll handle my needs perfectly.
As an aside, I like these types of threads when they stay on the informative side. It's always unfortunate that many times they seem to devolve into what basically amounts to name calling. But I do think you can tell a lot about a company from what negative experiences one has with said company (or product, for that matter). Of course this thread took a detour from the original question quite some time ago (happens to most threads on an online forum, so not all that surprising).