Seal Pup with a bullet hole / Fishing Report

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Nick Andrews, Aug 28, 2005.

  1. Nick Andrews New Member

    Posts: 487
    Bremerton, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Was out on the canal this weekend and while walking the beach found a young seal pup with a bullet hole in its side. I think that it had been out there a couple of days. I think that it is the same pup that I had seen just three weeks ago sunny at the mouth of the Skokomish. I can not be sure of course, but either way it just it not right. It is sad to see that people would do such a thing, but it a world full of ignorant s**t heads what can you expect. I am sure that it was killed because some felt that if it grew up it would eat all the salmon. Yet, not two months ago a pod of Orcas left after taking out over half of the canal’s seal population. It is funny that this year’s salmon runs are below normal and had the Orcas not come into the canal it would have probably been much worse on the canal salmon runs. Mother Nature was a way of working problems out on her own, she sure does not need Joe Dip S**t’s contribution.

    Fish Report: I only fished for about ten minutes last night and landed a nice 14 inch cutt. I saw it jumping as we were sitting around the fire so I grabbed my rod and it was only a few cast till she was on the end of my line.
  2. Guillaume New Member

    Posts: 76
    Woodinville, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Oh gee...I can't believe this. This is really infuriating. We are getting way too many s**t heads in this state, this is ruining the fishing experience SO bad. Teh same m****f****s trash the beaches, leave their lines so wildlife gets entengled and die. Sadly, I think we need way more police then there is right now around fishing areas.
  3. D3Smartie Active Member

    Posts: 1,987
    WA
    Ratings: +4 / 0
    not saying that it is right to shoot a seal pup but we need to do something out in the sound to put some fear into the seals. They have become way too domesticated and daring. Its just going to take a person getting killed to finally get the message across that they are a problem.
  4. fatwhitedog New Member

    Posts: 120
    a place on the OlyPen, Wa.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Nothing will happen even if a sea lion attacks a person.

    They’re protected wildlife. (any one remember Herschel at the locks?)

    There used to be big floating platforms by the Edmonds ferry docks, on the edge of the underwater park there. They were divers floats so you could haul out and rest there after kicking out there, or before kicking back in.

    Sea lions started using them to sleep on and rest too. The sea lions bit a few divers out there when divers got near the floats. Guess what?

    They removed the floats, and that was that.
  5. gearhead Active Member

    Posts: 661
    Renton, wa
    Ratings: +45 / 0
    here will be a polarizing subject i'm sure, but please pardon my ignorance if i don't shed a tear. i started fishing puget sound around 1982. i remember seeing a seal was a real treat. there were not that many around. i used to fish at the ballard locks with an older neighbor plunking kwik fish below the ladder for stealhead. it was during this time that Hershal, or whatever his name was, the sea lion showed up. we would watch this expert fisherman thrash stealhead all night long, one after the other, maybe two dozen in a couple hours or less. then as each year went by, hershal started bringing his friends, now maybe as many as two dozen stealhead per hour being thrashed by only three sea lions. back then the cedar had a healthy run of stealhead, now they are near extinct because we couldn't shoot hershal and his three pals. in the end, there were about 7 or 8 of them. some finaly were captured, but it was too late. now there are thousands and thousands. having a salmon removed from your hook by a seal is a very common problem now. i have now heard stories that seals are all the way up to bonneville thrashing fish, and taking them from anglers is a common occurance there too. this morning i saw a seal at bonneville thrashing a salmon at the deadline on a TV show. imagine how many fish aday, each one kills, multiply by the population, then multiply that by 365. not just salmonids, but true cod, black cod etc, even the giant octupus we have in puget sound. about 7 years ago i saw a sea lion in elliot bay thrashing this huge octopus. since then i saw this show talking about the declining numbers of giant octopus, and just snicked at how they blamed enviromental issues not even looking at the possibility that predation may be the cause. there is no doubt in my mind that this population needs to be aggressively controlled. in canada on Vancouver Island, there is a river that ran some 25 miles or so to a hatchery, sea lions started following the run of fish and in short order, there were as many as 50 hanging out at the hatchery, 25 miles up this small river. the canadians handled it, gave rifles to there hatchery personnel and shot about half the seals. i hurts me greatly that even a Canadians have the common sense to see a problem, and deal with it, but here we will just debate it till the damage is done.
    don't get me wrong i feel bad that that seal may have suffered. it would have bothered me as well, just something to think about. my fingers hurt. The End.
  6. Porter Active Member

    Posts: 6,378
    Kenmore, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +485 / 0
    I noticed a dead one at Picnic Point tonight....must have been there for awhile..or floating around and recently beached in a decayed state.
  7. Guillaume New Member

    Posts: 76
    Woodinville, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I think we all agree that the State should address the sea lion/seal problem. But I firmly agreed with Nick in his original post: s***heads putting a bullet into seal pups is just unacceptable. In fact, that's a great way to work against resolving the problem. That's the last thing we need to see in the paper: "Angry fishermen shoot seal pup in the head because he was "stealing" a salmon".
  8. martyg Active Member

    Posts: 980
    The world at large
    Ratings: +74 / 0
    We should shoot hawks, eagles and osprey too - they eat gamebirds as well as fish and we have more right to those fish and gamebirds than they do. Right?
  9. gearhead Active Member

    Posts: 661
    Renton, wa
    Ratings: +45 / 0
    Now who's ignorant.... ever think by the way, that it may be the tribes doing some of this shooting, and not some guy with a spincast outfit. they work their nets at night, and carry rifles for seals messing with their nets. when they pull in their nets and find nearly all the fish caught in it have been partialy eaten, i'm thinking they might get a 'lil mad about it.
  10. Bob Triggs Your Preferred Olympic Peninsula Fly Fishing Guide

    Posts: 3,951
    Olympic Peninsula
    Ratings: +619 / 0
    I think we all need to speak in terms of fact about this. Accusing anyone of this crime, here on this site, without proof or having actually witnessed the act, is a very bad way of communicating one's frustration.
  11. Beckler Member

    Posts: 104
    Redmond, WA
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    Nick, that is really sickening to hear about. I can just imagine walking along a beach with my four year old son who loves all animals and everything to do with the ocean, and here is a seal pup with a bullet hole. That is just plain stupidity. Perhaps there is a seal overpopulation problem, I don't know, I'm not a marine biologist and I'm sure the ---hole that did this wasn't either. Let the people with the knowledge and experience make these determinations. :mad:
  12. Stonefish Triploid and Humpy Hater

    Posts: 3,856
    Pipers Creek
    Ratings: +1,260 / 1
    Andrew,
    Did you report this to WDFW?
    Brian
  13. D3Smartie Active Member

    Posts: 1,987
    WA
    Ratings: +4 / 0
    these are the same people that dont know where the spring chinook went, or the lake WA sockeye, or care about preserving wild steelhead.
  14. Beckler Member

    Posts: 104
    Redmond, WA
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    D3, If it is your opinion that the "experts" are clueless then so be it, in many ways I would agree. I realize that WA has a history of poor judgement when it comes to our fisheries, but I still don't think that gives anyone the right to take things into their own hands.
  15. Nick Andrews New Member

    Posts: 487
    Bremerton, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Gearhead, that is unfortunate that you feel that way. I do have to say that if for one minute you think that the seal and sea lion populations are at fault for the declining salmon and steelhead populations, then you have no idea what you are talking about. The reason that they all sit out side the locks, and other easy access areas and feed on wild steelhead and salmon, is because we have too many hatchery fish being pumped out of our systems. When these fish return it is a hay day for the seals and sea lions, which then does two things. First it gives these animals the nutrition that they need to reproduce, which has lead to over populating in some areas, namely those with large hatchery programs. Second, the wild stock salmon and steelhead get caught up in the feeding frenzy that occurs in these areas. The answer to this problem is not to shoot wild animals, because they are doing what nature intended them to do (feed and procreate), but to reduce the hatchery programs in our state and put more focus on rehabilitating the environment as so the wild fish can bounce back. There is a balance in the environment the needs to be maintained and through human selfishness we have managed to thrown it off. The answer is not shooting wild animals, but regaining the balance in our ecosystems. If you need me to list the larger contributors to the declining wild salmon and steelhead populations I would be happy to do so. -Nick
  16. gearhead Active Member

    Posts: 661
    Renton, wa
    Ratings: +45 / 0
    Nick, please don't put words in my mouth, i see that your are traumatized/pissed by the demize of this seal. i think we all are aware of the impact that we humans have on fish and seal populations, so i do not need a lesson. please re-read my remarks. the fact is: That seals are an "added" impact to Hood Canal and Puget sound fish,(not just salmon) that was not present not so many years ago. I don't know how many seals we have now in our state, but, how many salmonids and bottom fish do say 5,000 seals eat each day, maybe a couple dozen, i'm not really sure, and multiply that by 365. if that is not an impact i don't know what is. there used to be a steelhead run in the low thousands in the cedar river when i was growing up, and i, as well as many people on this site, watched just three sea lions destroy that entire run, in less than 8 years.The feds realized the Run was in crisis and authorized the shooting of the three seals,but the City of Seattle would not allow the Feds to shoot them. instead they were simply captured, dropped in California, only to return with a friend or two each year. i think it was in 1990, when on leave from the Army, i watched the news one evening and they said that something less than 20 steelhead went thru the locks that winter. from thousands to less than 20, all because people wanted to debate what to do and point fingers at eachother instead of doing something. maybe if seals weren't so cute, the decision would be easier. we control other animal populations, with great success, to keep them from starving or to lesson predation. why is a seal any different. Let me make it clear i do not advocate people blasting and stacking seals. it's a criminal act, and should be punished. Let the Feds do it. (yes i know.... i'm ignorant)
  17. Nick Andrews New Member

    Posts: 487
    Bremerton, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Gearhead, it is not that I am "traumatized/pissed by the demize of this seal." I am just upset in general in the way we humans treat the environment in which we depend on to survive. Now I am not "putting words in your mouth," I am just trying to show you the big picture. It is your point of view that shifts blame onto animals such as seals that distracts from the real problems that we need to address such as dams, over fishing, timber harvesting practices, emissions, and run off from farm lands...just to name a few. Now the fact that you put more weight into the population of seals in Puget Sound and Hood canal, then these others issues is just a huge distraction. We need to stop escaping the responsibility by way of blame animals that have been here apart of this ecosystem long before the white man showed his ugly face in the Northwest. You mentioned the Cedar River as an example to highlight your point of the problem presented by allowing the seals to feed themselves. In 1999 American River’s name the Cedar River sixth most endangered river in the country.

    “6. Cedar River (Washington) Sprawl, Water Withdrawals If allowed to thrive, the Puget Sound Basin's Cedar River could produce one of the largest runs of salmon and steelhead in the state of Washington. The Cedar has not been allowed to fulfill its potential, however, as unchecked development from Seattle - one of the nation's ten most sprawling cities, according to the Sierra Club - has caused Cedar River runs to decline dramatically. Victims of the urban crush, Puget Sound chinook salmon are now listed under the federal Endangered Species Act.
    Unfortunately, Seattle's strategy for protecting what remains of the Cedar's salmon runs - implementing a 50-year Habitat Conservation Plan (HCP) - may have the opposite effect. If accepted by the federal government, the HCP will allow more water to be taken from the river, further degrading salmon habitat and fueling even more urban sprawl.
    http://www.americanrivers.org/site/PageServer?pagename=AMR_content_e53a
    Since this report a lot has changed on the Cedar River over the past six years and most of it had to do with cleaning up the habitat around steam and change practices as to how water levels are maintained. Now I would just like to respond directly to one of your statements. And no I don’t think that you are so much ignorant, just misinformed.

    "having a salmon removed from your hook by a seal is a very common problem now. i have now heard stories that seals are all the way up to bonneville thrashing fish, and taking them from anglers is a common occurance there too. this morning i saw a seal at bonneville thrashing a salmon at the deadline on a TV show."

    I think that you might want to do some research other than what you see on the news. What the news is showing you a very narrow view into again a much larger problem. There is a wealth of information done by many different organizations out there. If I were you I would do a little more searching and I think that you may find a lot of informative articles, research papers, and environmental studies concerning the depleting of wild fish stocks.
  18. gearhead Active Member

    Posts: 661
    Renton, wa
    Ratings: +45 / 0
    Oh man.... Your killin' me. Guess we are gonna have to agree to disagree. I will say it again. I AM NOT BLAMING THE SEALS. gosh... man oh man.
    You mention Dams, over fishing, Timber, Emmissions, Run off. Well i know that. Heck we all know that. But Seals are a contributor as well. and thats what YOU do not want to talk about. Everything else has already, and is being talked about.
    You speak of the Cedar Rivers 1999 listing, well what a coincidence, being that i mentioned a run of less than 20 Steelhead that year. Number one reason, was, and in the case of the Cedar, and Only the Cedar... Seals! Just 3 of them. I think the locks were there maybe 50 or so years prior to this first sea lion arriving. You mention that the Cedar should be able to produce one of the largest runs of salmon, if it could only be allowed to reach its full potential, well guess what, it is, do you call 300,000 sockey small.
    You mention that i should be careful and wary of what i see on the news. well it was not on the news.Personally i think everybody in that business is full of Bull$&!T. It was a fishing show. Buddy, i live it, i see it, i have personally watched the population grow. unless you are out there in the Salt and have been for the last 24 years, you have no way of understanding what it is i have been saying. And yes, having a seal take your fish from you is a very very common problem. last year at the mouth of the cowlitz it was common, it has happened to me twice. i used to carry a bucket of rocks to keep them at bay when playing a fish, 'till i was told it was a felony. ipersonaly see Seals taking fish from lines about every time i go out in the salt during the seasons. i fished Biz point once, about 5 years ago, just once. I watched nine salmon hooked that morning, all nine were lost to aggressive harbor seals. i caught the only fish that day. The Seal population is a problem and it should not be ignored. You can blame the dams, you can blame ugly white guys like myself, but if you fail to address this problem as well, then you are ignorant, and you are not well informed. you can't attain knowledge on this subject by just reading articles written by, in some cases individuals with their own agenda, or groups such as, i hate Bush, and he is the cause of it all, Sierra club and their authors with their personal agendas.
  19. Old Man Just an Old Man

    Posts: 21,523
    Dillon, Mt
    Ratings: +1,617 / 0
    Hey,chill out. You are talking about a problem that everybody knows about and can't do anything about it. Somethings you just can't control and the seal problem is one of them. Ever since they outlawed killing them for coats the population has boomed.

    And the same can be said for all of the animals of this planet. The bears and cougars,you can't bait them any more so their population is growing. Do you want to blame them if they start eating people. We build where they live.

    So I guess you can say all of the problems of the wildlife world can be blamed on MAN.

    So just chill out. Go fishing or something. Or if all of this bothers you just QUIT and go play golf or something. I think that we are tired of hearing about this problem.At least I am.

    Jim
  20. Porter Active Member

    Posts: 6,378
    Kenmore, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +485 / 0
    Guess....no I think it is fact.