Seattle Kman is DOA?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by slippery_whippet, Nov 29, 2010.

  1. slippery_whippet Member

    Posts: 229
    Sedro Woolley, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Hi Jakob,

    I for one consider this to be great news and hope for all the best. Folks at both the Tigard and Bellevue stores helped me out a lot over the years. This was my first time I have made it over to the Seattle store.

    I am curious though why I was told by the person working the counter that no new stock would be coming in anytime soon and that he expected to doors to close shortly. Maybe he was misinformed? What I saw were hardly any flies in the bins and next to nothing for tying supplies with lots of empty space on the walls. I would think that this time of the year would be prime time. However, when I walked into the Seattle store fully expecting to drop a couple hundred bucks and came out with only one bag of Kman dubbing, that tells me something too. Maybe you have a disgruntled employee, but the lack of stock on the shelves seems like a pretty major indicator....I certainly walked out pretty saddened by what I saw after making the trek downtown with a long list of tying supplies. Can you speak to that?

    Again, perhaps this is just speed bump and you guys get things turned around. All the best,

  2. Hunt-man Member

    Posts: 64
    Portland, OR
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    Christmas time and empty shelves..... Really? That doesn't sound good. Maybe a money problem? I hope they don't go away. I do like the Tigard store.
  3. Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Posts: 7,136
    Not sure
    Ratings: +1,226 / 0
    I gotta agree. The same thing's been going on for some time at a couple of other Seattle area stores. SInce they're site sponsors, I won't name names but we all know who they are. Anyone who's gone in looking for tying supplies, hooks, or other consumables will have undoubtedly noticed that in at least two stores (and I'm not talking about Kaufmann's), more than half their wall hooks are empty. When I've asked, I've gotten a variety of lame answers like 'Our shipment is running late' or 'The manufacturer is having a hard time filling orders.'

    So the shipment's been running late for 6 months and you're still out of Tiemco dry fly hooks? Bullshit.

    Since those store are still open but with very reduced inventory, I have a different theory: the current credit crunch has meant that stores - especially small stores like fly shops - have had a hard time with cash flow and have been unable to get credit to keep their inventory up. It's a vicious circle: as their inventory slowly sells out, the shop can't replace it, which means that fewer people buy stuff because the shop doesn't have it in stock and can't buy it, which means their sales start to slow down, making it harder to pay on their existing lines of credit, making a new or higher credit line harder to get.

    How's that fit in with your experience Jakob? Why all the empty shelves?

    (I'll be shocked and amazed if Jakob replies. If he does, I'll bet a swig from my bottle of George Dickel 12 that it'll be to repeat some other lame excuse like those his competitors are offering. Maybe if Jakob and the owners at the two Seattle shops leveled with their customers instead of blowing smoke up our waders, we'd all be inclined to cut you even more slack and rally around to support you during these hard times.)

    OTOH, we've all seen similar rumors before. Remember the hot thread last year that SImms was going out of business? Or the one about Winston closing? It's that time of year when most folks stop fishing and conspiracy theories replace fishing trips.

  4. Islander Steve

    Posts: 2,178
    Langley, Wa..
    Ratings: +182 / 6
    That's a good point Kent. There are tons of flattened squirrels and cottontails on the Whidbey roads...problem is...none of the bunnies are olive color.
  5. JesseC Active Member

    Posts: 1,983
    seattle, wa
    Ratings: +755 / 0
    Something's going on Jakob. Obviously it's none of my business in terms of what the problem is, but I hope that you're able to get it figured out. I've been going in Kaufman's for over two years and the inventory has been lacking "most" of the time. You guys are out of a lot of pretty basic patterns. Obviously you know this. But, I've been disappointed to the point that I simply quit going in. I can only buy so many size 6 stimulators :)

    Hope you guys get everything figured out. I love the shop, the people that work there, and want to see you guys continue to run a store in the neighborhood.

  6. gt Active Member

    Posts: 2,616
    sequim, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    yah'know, it's none of our business if lance is closing things down. it's his business to operate and his decision to make or break. what we can do in the interum is patronise our local shops and stop speculating, it's just a waste of time and energy.
  7. Scott Salzer previously micro brew

    Posts: 2,892
    Ratings: +206 / 0

    Obviously, game bird feathers are fine but passerines are a no-no, not technically but for real. I have heard of Montana game wardens going through fly tying materials looking for that no-no stuff. FRESH roadkill has other "use" than just salvaged materials.....

  8. constructeur Active Member

    Posts: 1,519
    Seattle, Wa
    Ratings: +412 / 0
    What like this?:
    Show some class captain capitalization, you know nothing about Patricks or Creeksides financial viability.

    If you have a problem with the shop tell them not me, and if you've been waiting for dryfly hooks for 6 months I'll kindly inform you that AATF has plenty in stock and is just as close to your location when urban traffic is considered.
  9. Mark Moore Just a Member

    Posts: 740
    Vancouver, Wa.
    Ratings: +68 / 0
    Wow...somebody hasn't been feeling the tug lately it seems.

    Truth told, the Kmans issues are less to do with the economy and more to do with their conduct of business. Here in Portland, River City is less than 2 miles away, has ten times the inventory and nowhere near the attitude. The economic climate can't really be all that bad when we have a brand new Orvis store and a new Flyshop here in just the last few months.
  10. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 2,349
    Ratings: +733 / 0
    I think all you business gurus should start up you own fly shop and show the the people how it's done , It only would take about $200.000 to open your shop , So open your own shop or shut the huck up!
  11. JesseC Active Member

    Posts: 1,983
    seattle, wa
    Ratings: +755 / 0
    I tell you how i'd do it. I would sell online only so I didn't have to deal with all you high maintenance nannies who want your no-no zones massaged every time you walk in a fly shop. ;)
  12. segge Member

    Posts: 44
    Puyallup, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    The online store problem relates to "Free Shipping/No Tax" which means on a $700 spey rod the difference is not inconsequential.
    This is one of the problems that caused the Morning Hatch to go out of business a few years ago. People would come in and try stuff out or on and then go get it online. I just bought a spey rod and got it from a local shop ... need to support them.

    Steve Egge
  13. Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Posts: 7,136
    Not sure
    Ratings: +1,226 / 0
    Your point about no sales tax is a good one. I'd forgotten that in the Seattle area we have among the highest sales tax rates in the nation. While it varies by a few tenths of a percent by municipality within the area, at the prevailing rate of 9.8% on your rod you'd be paying an additional $68.60 - enough to buy a line to go with your new rod.

    It's worth remembering though, that some online retailers - like Cabelas - are obliged to charge tax since they have a physical presence in the state. It's also worth watching the Amazon v. North Carolina litigation. The state sued Amazon to provide the names of all Amazon customers from North Carolina and the amounts of their purchases so they could go after them for unpaid sales tax. While the parties will probably settle for something less than that, the handwriting is on the wall that sooner or later, we'll all be paying some sort of sales tax on ALL purchases, online OR in person.

    I haven't run across free shipping offer, but then I haven't bought anything online in quite some time.

  14. smc Active Member

    Posts: 383
    Up River
    Ratings: +30 / 0
    It's also worth noting that WA sales tax is certainly negotiable, along with shipping if applicable, for any item, subject to a "map" (minimum acceptable pricing) agreement or not, online or brick & mortar. The retailer just cannot lower the actual price for a "map" item itself.
  15. Kirk Singleton Capt Kirk

    Posts: 673
    Sammamish, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    If I had store credit at Kman, I would run downtown and spend it while you can ;-)
  16. Hunt-man Member

    Posts: 64
    Portland, OR
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    I'll second that.
  17. Chef New Member

    Posts: 1,102
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    My favorite fly shop doesnt charge me tax on big orders... which is nice.
  18. Porter Active Member

    Posts: 6,463
    Kenmore, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +522 / 0
    "Well," said Pooh, "what I like best -- " and then he had to stop and think. Because although Eating Honey was a very good thing to do, there was a moment just before you began to eat it which was better than when you were, but he didn't know what it was called” ........Fucktarded..I think is the word.
  19. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 2,349
    Ratings: +733 / 0
    When did they start massaged no no zones? I've never recieved this perk!
  20. Don Barton Member

    Posts: 215
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I have been worried about Kaufman's, so this thread makes me very sad.

    I got my fly fishing start in 2001 thanks to the downtown Seattle store. Blair Alexander and Gary Thompson helped me buy my first fly fishing set up. I still have and regularly use the 5 wt Sage XP, Abel TR2 reel, and the Patagonia rain jacket that I bought from them. More recently Bod Aid has been of great support.

    Over the years I have shopped at the downtown Seattle store at least once a quarter and sometimes much more frequently. It is hard to visit any one store too often when I feel the need to spread my business around several well run locally owned stores such as The Avid Angler, Creekside, Patricks, and Puget Sound Fly Company. Plus Orvis and Leland deserve business too. And there are worthy fly shops over the hill to the east such as the Yakima River shop in Cle Elum and Ellensburg, Reds in the Canyon and the Desert Angler in Euphrata. Sadly, I must report that over the last few years I have been disappointed in my fly selection options when I have visited Bob downtown. He was often out of the obvious fly or flies for the current season.

    If Kaufman's closes, it will be a sad day for our sport. It was once king of the hill. Today the hill is a little smaller and Kaufman's has admittedly failed to compete effectively in this very challenging marketplace.

    I wish Lance and his staff well. I hope they survive as a team. If not, I wish them all success in whatever comes next.