Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by 509, Apr 22, 2008.
Who says they can't make a hybrid truck?
2009-2010 ford is coming out with a hybrid F150. But I doubt it will get 50 to 60 mpg. You will be lucky to get 30 mpg with out giving up towing power, and load capacity.
Good enough for me to buy! I'll take 30 any day over the 15 my Ranger gets. Chipped out I'm sure you could squeeze 35 out of it.
I had to buy a small commuter car this year. I got my Toyota Yaris for $11,400 brand new. It gets 40 mpg on the button, and the back folds flat into a small wagon to change or sleep in if I need to. If it had 4 more inches of ground clearance I would say it was the perfect fishing vehicle.
HERE'S YOUR AIR CAR JASON:
We're going to head to Montana in June or July - screw the fuel costs - I just wanna fish somewhere besides WA. And lately to combat fuel prices, I've been taking my float tube with me on the city bus.
Thanks to everyone for their posts......
Reading the posts....it appears about 25% will fish less, and 75% will continue to fish the same as now. My guess is that 25% number is probably high. So it does not look like it will be less crowded.
Surveys have suggested that folks are more becoming more committed and passionate about their recreational activities than their jobs. This group is definitely passionate and probably committed!!!
Also of the number that will continue to fish at today's levels 25% will try and do extended trips rather shorter day trips.
Looking at what happened in the 1979 to 1981 period. If I remember right recreation use did drop a few percent for a couple of years in areas far from metro areas. One issue during that time period was availability of gas not only price. So it was hard to judge if price really had that much effect.
One question is for those folks that plan on doing extended trips rather than shorter day trips. Can you do that with your job?
When I was working I could basically walk out the door for the day whenever I felt like it as long as I kept up and of course, put in the hours. Seeing the number of folks now fishing on weekdays it seems that flex-time is pretty popular these days.
It was a hell of a lot more difficult to take a couple of weeks off or for that matter even one week at a time. Those reports had to completed and meetings had to be attended. Throw family obligations into that mix and a three day weekend was about the max.
So do you think you'll be able to take longer trips??
There is probably one difference between 1979 and 2008. It will be several years, maybe even a decade or more before price of fuel is stable again.
PS. I don't think compressed air cars will cut it!!!
When I was twelve to fifteen I had to walk or ride a bike to most of my fishing destinations, Bitter Lake and Haller Lake were near and took 10 minutes or less....some destinations took an hour. I learned a lot from these walks about the neighborhood and stream/creek structure. I learned to appreciate my time on the water too. Maybe before I check out from this Cougar killing earth (I know) I will be walking again or riding some self propelling device to my fishing destination ....there will be some fishing destinations ..right?
I vow to make more trips and in that time stay longer periods of time at a single place. I'm just trying to go to places I can park, get the boat in, fish and not leave for a week. No traveling around at the end of the day all season. In Kamloops I see gas is getting close to $5 a gallon if I did my math right... will be avoiding getting lost this year!
About extended trips relating to job, it will work this year as I saved enough to work part time. Gonna try and get some work that packs the hours in for some of summer and fall.
I will kill fish for dinner... in high enough areas.
Definitely, the cost of everything is going up... I cringe when I go to the grocery store and see how expensive things are! Luckily I do okay and can afford to buy what I want too / need too.
I'll stick close to town for a while and probably plan on fishing the Snoqualmie Forks more this year, as well as the Sky and Snoqualmie.
I'm also open to carpooling more this year than before and trying to get at least one other person to come along for longer trips. I'm hestitant to do long day trips unless the fishing is known to be very good or that's all the time I have.
Definitely, cut back on other things! For me I've decided I'm going to work from home 3 - 4 days per week and go to meetings as necessary at my client site or company. Most of the time I can arrange my meetings in blocks of time so I don't have to go all over the place or just do conference calls.
As far as fishing, I'll bitch about it a bit, but will just skip what I have too and still go. Maybe skip that latte beforehand and tie a few more flies, rather than buy them (we'll see if that actually happens)!
The oil companies see the writing on the wall. They gotta wring every last dollar out of it before it's gone, and jack it up while they can.
This house-o-cards is gonna fall, and take everything else down with it, because we've constructed an economic/societal delivery system that is totally dependant upon cheap and easily available oil.
Hell, I'm thinking food and water are gonna get lean in the next ten years.
I don't like being a pessimistic SOB, but welcome to the lag phase.
Get it while you can.
Me? I'm taking longer fishing/backpacking vacations, and closer to home, instead of multiple long-travel/international trips throughout the year, and I've always made the decision to live close to where I work, and bike/walk/bus for the day-to-day stuff.
Hold on. It's gonna get crazy.
The oil (and military-industrial, and pharma) execs are gonna walk away rich and insulated.
There's a storm brewing. The middle- and lower-class are gonna get jacked.
French Revolution, anyone?
Gas is cheap
I was in New Zealand 10yrs ago paying about a buck a liter. $4/gal! Everyone drove what would be considered 'economy' cars by American standards. Even work trucks were these weird Isuzu 4cyl turbo diesels. They could pull reasonably well, but they solved the problem with gear ratios rather than fuel. Top speed on these puppies was probably 75mph.
Prior to the Opec oil embargo in the early 70's, 'economy' cars weren't very popular, especially not in the US. It took pissed off Arabs and jacked up oil prices for us to embrace that idea. Naturally, oil prices affected the prices of natural gas and home heating fuel as well. That's why you are more likely than not cozied up behind insulated walls and double-paned glass. Most houses were single-paned and many were uninsulated before the embargo.
Prices that are uncomfortable to us are the only mechanism that will actually bring about change. I think it's pretty phucked that we are so dependant on a finite, non-renewable resource that's mostly under questionable political control and horrible for the environment. We SHOULD have to pay big $$$ for the privledge of using it. It should be expensive.
As far as oil company profits go, they haven't always made money. I bought option contracts on a domestic oil driller in March of 99' when Brent crude was around $12 a barrel. It was costing small drillers close to $18 a barrel to get it out of the ground. Seemed too cheap to me. Lucky pick, I guess, it turned out to be the bottom of that downtrend. I made 300% on the July contracts. It's been straight up since, nearly a 10-fold increase. I would be inclined to think that somewhere in that 10-fold move they probably covered their losses. Obviously, any sort of subsidies, tax credits, etc... for the industry have to go. If you raise taxes on them, they'll just pass it on to us, but there should be some tax-based program that steers their profits into R&D for alternative fuels, fuel cells, solar, wind, hydrogen, electric, batteries, blah, blah. Rather than spending money on increasing capacity and exploration. Competition over oil is never going to go away. It's only going to get worse.
Compressed air cars?
I saw them on the History channel. They sounded like a quiet 2-stroke motorcycle. Cool idea, but it takes energy to get compressed air too.
Great thread. I'm on the cusp of getting a new truck and have been frustrated at the options out there. I'll hold on if a hybrid's in the offing.
On a somewhat related note, here's some links to the Tango being produced in Spokane. Hunt the net and you'll find a drag race against a Ferrari. Literally smoked it. It's essentially a slot car.
Not to hi-jack my own topic, but I talked to several folks that came back from Argentina. You can buy a F-150 with a diesel that will get in the range of 40-50 mpg. Sounded like it was a 3 cylinder???
Don't know what the tow capacity but if its MPG it might be worth waiting.
Also Honda is coming out with a diesel Accord hybrid....though unless you sit in traffic hybrids are a waste of money. But the rumour is the Honda hybrid will go to 60-80 in city traffic.
With the new low sulfer diesel American car makers can finally meet EPA air quality standards with diesel engines. So it looks like we are finally going to get some of those high mileage vehicles that the rest of the world has been driving. Of course, you know what that's going to do to the price of diesel!!!
I would be interested in a hybrid truck, or maybe a diesel. Diesel now though is no price break over gas (little if any). For some reason (big oil?) these options are not being offered in the US. Yet at least.
My latest plan is to keep the truck purely as a once a month hauler, since I'll likely get very little trade in on a 16 year old Toyota. I'd then buy a hybrid people car (likely an Accord) and take over my wife's Pilot. Later, when a decent truck option comes up, I shuffle the deck again. I don't really want to end up with 4 cars (I have a young driver needing a car in the fall).
FWIW - Spoke with a Toyota mechanic a while back who had just serviced a Land Cruiser purchased in England (or Spain) with a TDI engine. The owner is on a round the world drive apparently. He claimed that driving across Canada he was often getting 60 MPG. Seems like a lot of mass per gallon but I hope it's true.
I drive a Jeep Liberty CRD, a little-known diesel that Chrysler sold in the US for 2 years (2005-2006). They have sold them (and continue to sell them) all over the world, but have not wanted to invest in bringing them up to US 2007 clean air standards. It gets roughly 20 mpg or so in the city, 28 mpg on the highway. We got it for the fuel efficiency (our old 4Runner was lucky to get 15 and 20.)
Folks telling you diesel pick ups will get 40+ mpg don't know what they are talking about. Lightweight, highly aerodynamic Volkswagen Jetta diesel's average 40-45 mpg on the highway. A small pickup like a Ranger would be lucky to hit 30-35, and a full size like and F150 could maybe hit 25-30. Diesels are more efficient, but they are not magic.
We all (meaning American's collectively) got ourselves into this mess. We believed the marketing saying we needed 5000 pound vehicles to take our kids back and forth to school, otherwise we would die in a fiery crash. We believed the politicians who said Amtrak and rail travel and transport were pure socialism and we needed to invest in more roads and highways instead. We believed that cities were for poor people, criminals and minorities, and American's who "made it" moved out to the 'burbs. We believed that if our cars didn't have 250+ hp, we'd never get laid.
Now the chickens are coming home to roost. I get frustrated that instead of dealing with the real problem (we've built an economy around cheap fuel, leading to one of the least efficient transportation infrastructures in the world), we Americans are looking around for the next thing that will magically make it cheap to drive again. McCain's 18 cent a gallon gas tax waiver, Clinton and Obama's desire to throw more $$ at US automakers to develop the "next big thing" that will make the problem go away.
To get out of this mess, we need to stop looking down our noses at our friends in Japan and Europe, with their hippy ideas about high speed rail transport, urban transit such as light rail (and even bicycles), less sprawling communities. There is a big opportunity for America to re-invent itself (and make a lot of good capitalists rich in the process), but only if we are willing to make big changes. Hopping in the car on the weekend to go fishing should always be an American pastime. But hopping in a 12 mpg rig to drive to the grocery or drop Jimmy off at soccer makes no sense.
I fear the we as a society are no longer capable of making these kinds of changes. Invest in rail transit? Watch the trucking industry bust out the TV ads saying your taxes will go through the roof. Tighten up development rules to discourage sprawl? Here comes the PR campaign from the realtors and homebuilders about communist politicians trying to tell you what to do.
Sorry for the rant, but watching the news on this stuff is depressing. At a time when we should be looking ahead to a future where we don't have to worry about fuel prices, we seem stuck looking in the rearview mirror, wondering how we can bring back the good old days.
some of you must be so young you don't remember how this country used to operate. so lets do a quick review.
gas and oil refining used to be carried out by the brands we all know about today as well as a large number of independent refineries. these independents understood that for their capital investement to actually produce a profit, the refinery had to operate at 100% capacity all of the time.
along came deregulation and the independents were undercut or bought out by the industries largest. now some say that is how its supposed to work. i tend to look at this as the elimination of competition. that is the net effect of deregulation of all of the industries you can name.
so how do you go about manipulating pricing? pretty straight forward, actually. now keep in mind that the actual cost of finding, producing, transporting and refining the product has only changed by pennies over the course of the last 20 years or so.
what we now have is a limited product in the pipeline, step one to manipulation, limit the availability of your product even though demand continues. second step, shut your refineries down at critical times of the year claiming 'maintenance.' those two simple steps have let the gas and oil industry continue to rape the consumer while posting hundeds of billions in profits each quarter.
now lets throw in the corporate owned media. same scenario as the deregulated gas and oil folks. fewer and fewer owners with more and wider control of the daily flow of information. flood the print and broadcast media with stories about china, india, and anyone else, and you simply deflect the attention away from the root cause of the pain at the pump.
profit is good. that is not what we are seeing with the gas and oil industry. regulation of the product is the one and only way to reign this in on behalf of you and me.
2 totally random, on topic things;
1. I guess toyota is coming out with a wagon Hybrid of some kind soon.:thumb:...not the camary wagon, I'm being told.
2. I guess desiel just across the boarder in Mexico is 2 dollars a gallon....just saw that on t.v. today.
It won't be long until diesel half ton trucks are on the road. Ford has just shown it's 4.4 liter V-8 diesel that will develop 330 hp and 420# of torque. But any idea that this is an economy move is just nonsense. They promise a 20% fuel economy increase over the current 5.4 liter gas engine. But 20% of Abysmal Mileage is still Not Very Good Mileage and for this meager gain be prepared to spend a several thousand dollar premium over the gas engine. I think the current premium for a Power Stroke in a Super Duty is around $5K. Even at today's prices that will buy around 1250 gallons of fuel that will take you about 19,000 miles. This engine will require urea injection so there is a another fluid tank that will have to be topped off. More expense. Bottom line is this will be a very complex and expensive engine to maintain and the whole concept is counter to what diesels were originally-simple easy to maintain engines that got good economy. And seldom broke.
To that add the fact that the current F-150 weighs about 5500# and the diesel model will weigh more. Simple physics demands that every pound of weight added to a vehicle has to reduce mileage and these modern luxo-trucks are very, very heavy. It is likely that trucks will begin to migrate back to where they came from-used only by the people that really need them instead of inner-city drugstore cowboys that buy them simply to put more ass in their pants.
It's not that a sensible diesel truck can't be built either. In Europe Ford sells Ranger trucks with either a 2.5 or 3.0 liter TDI engine that gets 28mpg. They have plenty of torque to tow a small trailer or boat and would be more than adequate for many of our fishing adventures.
But if a truck just doesn't make good sense anymore maybe there is an alternative. The Honda Pilot-already a decent rig-is getting a lot better next year. It will have one feature that especially appeals to me. It can carry 4 x 8 sheet goods inside on a perfectly flat floor, dry and out of the weather. That puts the Utility in SUV. And it doesn't have that ridiculous sloping back or squinty little windows that so severely limit capacity and visibility on many of the competitors. In other words it is a proper SUV and not a styling exercise and as such will carry a mountain of gear, sleep two in comfort and haul the grandparents and kids to the mall in comfort. Mileage looks to be in the low to mid 20s. Not great but a lot better than the 3/4 ton Crew Cab lots of people are using to do the same job.
So is the price of gas going to affect my fishing trips this year? You bet but the local fish are going to be worse for it. With almost 50 lakes in an hour's drive I won't have too much trouble finding water. And Catch and Release? Well, it's going to be Catch and Grill, Catch and Fry or Catch and Smoke. No more Mr. Nice Guy. Ive