Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Jason Rolfe, Oct 24, 2008.
So you would run as a Democrat then.
Josh, Well put.
Regardless of anyone's political leanings, the two party system is becoming a slow death for us (though it's picking up speed). I look forward to the day when we have some others to choose from (and maybe some more interesting mixtures) rather than the lapel pin dems and lapel pin repubs.
SWEET, Ive always wanted to be called a redneck...lol
That was a "typical blue statement". :beathead:
Otherwise Known as Lenins' USEFUL IDIOTS.
McCain says he fishes, does he throw bait or fly? I know we cling to guns and religion, but do we cling to our rods as well?
Josh, I agree to a point. Look at the Italian multi-party system, they struggle to get anything significant done. Spain had a stong multi-party system before Franco, and their inability to get anything done was a significant factor to Franco's ability to create his dictatorship there. I'd love to see a three to five party system that had robust following in all the parties, but we are quite a bit removed from that as a real option.
Jay, all the outdoor types I know, the hunters and fishers, all are conservative types. We all drive "gas guzzling 4X4's" because an elk won't fit in a Prius!
right on, Mumbles! Somebody's stayed awake in his history classes!
I had an awesome history professor once, he made such an impact I had every class he taught. He did not focus on war history, but many other associated things and I ended up a History Major. That was not the origional plan, but that plan worked well. Oh, Alex, by the way, I too drive a crappy ass gas guzzling pathfinder. When it dies I'll probably get an Outback. It seems that they are popular and effective.
How can one answer that without offending someone? honestly? You know FF was merely refering to the hickest of hicks, not anyone outside of city limits that has a truck, so why post rhetoric?
And since it matters to you, why not stick your neck out and inch and tell us why you're a republican?
I'll bite on that fly, M. Le Constructeur; first, I've seen many, many people referred to as "rednecks" or worse by city folk simply because they look down their noses at us for not being part of the "cogniscenti". They use it as an insult. Just wander down to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer Soundoff to see what I'm talking about. Conservatives are reviled, and I've only seen such unbridled hatred once before, from Viet Cong and their sympathizers. I took Jay's initial post to be an insult
Second, I'm a Republican because I believe in the values of the original party; individuality, self-reliance, small government, and self-responsibility, and equality. I don't buy into the rubbish about government being able to do it better than private industry (hell, just look at the post office!), and I certainly don't need somebody else telling me what I "should" do or feel/think. I resist being my brother's keeper, paying my taxes to send illegal aliens to the University-which is done in CA, as they allow them to pay in-state tuition.
I was a democrat when I shipped out to Southeast Asia in `67, but two combat tours kinda "changed" that outlook into something a little more reality-based. It's nice to have utopian fantasies, but reality is what we work with. I've also seen the results of socialism/communism first hand and up close. The democrats, at least the more strident of their membership, seem hell-bent on landing us in that camp. If it ever comes to that, I'll put my tiger stripes back on, pick up my M-40, and hit the bushes again.
Politics is a place where no matter what you do, you're gonna step on toes. If it's done intentionally, shame on you: if it's done accidentally, shame on me. We've become so polarized we're frequently at each other's throats, and I'm always reminded that an armed society is a polite society. Maybe we should revisit the Code Duello. That might have prevented that idiot from flipping off my wife the other day for having a McCain sticker on her car-she's an excellent shot! Civil discourse needs to be just that-civil. We've allowed the discourse to become very uncivil, beginning in the `60's.
So, does that give you an idea why I choose to be a republican? I don't vote the party line, by the way, but study the candidate's voting record to determine if they align with my values. That's why I did not vote for Obama, although I'm not a fan of McCain, either.
cheers to that! :beer2:
it's too bad that it seems "conservative" means cultural conservative to most people, and most "republicans" are playing that card instead of being true fiscal conservatives. :beathead:
God, you guys are killing me... like the Repub's resemble anything you're describing there! Just look at the fact we need a new "debt" clock in NYC...
Until the ultra right religious groups get out of the party, it won't change.. just look at the current VP selection for McCain there!
If you haven't figured out which way I lean, you now can probably tell...
my point was that the republican party has lost its way. the only redeeming quality of the republican party besides a few individuals is its original platform which it has strayed long away from.
In regards to the question about why a majority of fly fishermen seem to be liberal and conventional gear anglers tend to be conservative, I'd guess it's education related. On average, those with more education tend to be liberal, and those with less are more likely to be conservative. I've read that more than once but don't recall where. If that conclusion is accurate, it correlates to my observation that fly guys seem to on average have a higher level of education than conventional gear folks. If that's the case, it's reasonable to expect that the fly fishing fraternity has more liberals than conservatives. Fortunately there's enough cross-over that neither group suffers the effects of homogenous boredom.
I am a liberal person and part of a long-standing family of Democrats. In my lifetime I :
Joined the Marine Corps during the Korea Campaign, served honorably and upon discharge earned my college education with help from the GI Bill.
Was born at the end of the Great Depression, which was caused by the folly of a conservative president, Herbert Hoover. Much of the tax and spend effort of President Roosevelt was to get people working via the WPA, CCC, etc. It was however World War II that actually brought us out of of the Depression; a victory which U.S citizens paid for with the loss of more than 400,000 brave warriors, mostly young.
I did not do well financially under President Regaon since his supply-side economics made the rich folks richer and took any wealth the working class had gained. He did win the Cold War without firing a shot and I thus vindicate him to that extent.
When Bush the Elder took over he ended his rein in shame with the looting of the savings and loans, which were bailed out with a loan from the citizens (sound familiar?). Us average folks didn't do well on that fiasco.
I did pretty darned well during the Clinton Administration. I enjoyed profitable and reasonably rewarding work and while I didn't like his sellout to overseas companies, he did at least leave United States out of debt and with a surpluis. Oh yes, the rich folks did pretty darned well also.
W and his robber baron cronies started the wrong war, ran a balanced budget into the largest deficit in history, allowed Wall Street to run completely wild and unregulated thus causing the largest upward movent of wealth and subsiquent crash since the Great Depression. And then he wanted to give the Wall Street thieves a check for fixing things without any oversight.
To date in my lifetime I have never experienced a Republican Administration (except Eisenhower who was a moderate Republican and a fly-fisherman) that ever improved my fishing, protected any of our land or worked to make my life better as a person on Main Street.
I'm not looking for an argument here. We remain a free people (one of our rights that I fought for) who can vote for whomever they wish and use any rationale that they deem appropriate and responsible. Like others on this thread I am simply stating my choice and how I arrived at it.
I have cast my vote for Barak Obama.
I'd guess if this poll was posted in cast n blast, you'd see a trend in the opposite direction.
Alex-Merci! All I was hoping for was a few logical , thought out, respectful responses, which we have here now.
Salmo-I agree to a point, and I'll throw in values, percepetion and exposure/respect of others. I was raised in the woods (way outs of Whatcom county) spent some time as a Marine, and now am going to school and working Ft in heavy civil/structures, yet when I go down to the river I'm nothing like the people that had a very similar childhood, and current career. Why is that?
Evan- Here's Chomsky talking about the passing of conservative William F. Buckley, and how todays republicans (Wolfowitz, Cheney, etc.) are actually Radical nationalists and not conservatives.
You may also find some value in reading ( or not) an author such as Chalmers Johnson. Though he is attacked often as being a liberal, I've found he's done a decent job of detailing the faults of both parties, and can explain much of the turmoil that America has been involved in for the past hundred or so years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnson
I can say that though I can relate to or agree with some conservative values, the current republican party and candidates are nothing I can support. I'm definately a conservative when it comes to fish, wild lands, and open spaces.
Les- Cheers for your perspective, all of your work on the conservation front, and a big thanks for your service! It really boggles some minds when you tell them you were in the USMC, and vote liberally eh?
Cpl Hamilton MWSS 473 Det-B
Cpl Hamilton MWSS 473 Det-B
Thank you. I guess it would be fair to call me a moderate Democrat. I'm also an advocate of the two party system and always have been. I'm also a believer in fairness within our population; top to bottom. Like yourself, party affiliation notwithstanding, I am always ready to stand up for my country in a very ground level sense. I have also never been bashful about speaking out on issues that I contend are right, or wrong. It is our country and a great one that I've always believed in, no matter which side of an issue I may come down on.
I am also a conservative when it comes to the stewardship of our country. By that I mean that we need to conserve the natural resources that we still have.