SFR--Why People hate California......

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Vladimir Steblina, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,135
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +791 / 1
    Ummm... I'm not so sure California is getting a little jealous.
  2. James W. Haan Member

    Posts: 76
    Benicia Ca
    Ratings: +10 / 0
    I've been here 25 years and I'm not leaving. Things change wherever you live so you have to adapt. I now have a gold mine in the Sierra Nevada on the N Yuba.We also have Rainbows and browns in the river.
  3. Trustfunder Active Member

    Posts: 177
    rock creek
    Ratings: +71 / 0
    Nice! I can say that last pic you're close to the source, not much tumble in a few nuggets.

    But you know what the difference is? A cali guy posts this stuff on the internet, a montana guy keeps it quite.
    Old406Kid likes this.
  4. Skysoldier Trout Hunter

    Posts: 754
    Lost in the woods.....
    Ratings: +194 / 0
    You don't have to like Cailfornia, hell I don't live there any longer for a reason but for all you that see fit to name call the people of California you can go to hell and kiss mine and my families ass on your way.
    Chris Johnson and Krusty like this.
  5. Old Man Just an Old Man

    Posts: 21,781
    Dillon, Mt
    Ratings: +1,722 / 0
    The only reason I don't like that place is that there is a whole lot of shaking going on. To damn many earth quakes for me. I like the quietness of Montana and the better than average fishing.
  6. Grayone Fishin' to the end, Oc.P

    Posts: 1,338
    boring, oregon
    Ratings: +111 / 0
    California is a "great" place to be "from".
    Alex MacDonald likes this.
  7. Robert Engleheart Robert

    Posts: 1,147
    Lemoore, CA
    Ratings: +112 / 0

    True. Actually, top CA tax rate is 11%, temporarily raised from 10%. On income of over 100K, I paid 3%, not unreasonable.

    To those who think the State of Jefferson will become a reality, Dream On. If it did, it'd become another red state living on Federal dollars. Much as you may dislike some of the "Blue" parts of CA, they support the Red parts with their tax dollars.

    Solar and wind projects unjustifiable? Really? I have a hard time buying that. Maybe the payback is longer, but they'll catch up and then it's free power. I work for the state and we are pushing renewable power on all agency buildings/properties where it's viable, has to have a 7 year or less ROI, sounds pretty reasonable to me.

    For the Jerry Brown denigrators, name a better recent alternative. I don't agree with everything he's doing, but he's brought both sides together in ways his predecessor couldn't, balanced the budget, advocating a savings fund with surplus, etc. Sure can't think of who's done that lately.
    Dan Nelson, jwg and cabezon like this.
  8. Vladimir Steblina Retired fishing instead of working

    Posts: 734
    Wenatchee, WA
    Ratings: +240 / 0
    Geez, Robert......quick comments.

    On Blue versus Red States and Federal dollars.....In 1990 with the Defense "build-down" California basically kicked out the military. Much of the Red state federal spending is military spending. That is when California went from a net positive in Federal dollars to negative. Washington is one of the few blue states with major military operations. You are correct in that states with positive Federal cash flow grow faster than other states. It is more about investment in those states infrastructure by the Federal government than social services.

    Solar power is not for a major industrial country. I have owned a off-grid house now for 17 years and been renting it out as a vacation rental property. So its pretty much your standard house is a spectacular setting. That said, if somebody came to me and said....we'll take your panels and hook you up to the grid I would do it in a minute. Solar and wind are very expensive for how little power they generate. Part of the reason California's ROI is seven years is power is so expensive there!!! My electric bill in Chelan County in January is $100. In California, it would be over $2,000!!!

    On Jerry Brown....In Grant County, until 1980, everybody had a picture of Franklin Roosevelt in their house. I immigrated to America as a child in 1956. We moved to California in 1961. In our house, there would have been a picture of Edmund Brown Senior. California was an amazing place in the 1960's primarily due to state government. It really was a state all about opportunity. Looking back on it....if we had immigrated to California today we would be stuck in poverty not for just one generation, but probably at least two. It is a nanny state today, not a state of opportunity.

    And that gets us to the drought. Political leadership. Setting of priorities. In my economics classes it was drilled into me that capital is limited. Spend it wisely. Likewise taxes are limited, spend them wisely.

    California is in deep trouble on so many fronts, but the drought will make them all look small in comparison. Jerry Brown really needs to start formulating a strategy for dealing with the drought if it should run into the next couple of years. There are 17 communities in California running out of water this year.....that is serious.

    California also has a "structural deficit" in its water infrastructure. They realize it, but want to destroy the Delta to solve it. Next will be the damming of the north coast rivers. In the 40 years since I left the state California has "talked" protecting the environment, but just continued to destroy millions of acres of land since that time. Thanks god, for the Forest Service and BLM lands in California. That is all that's going to left in a ecologically functioning condition.

    Really I think California has reached its "carrying capacity" and really does need to address the issue of population growth.
  9. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,785
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +689 / 5
    Just a quick note, not to detract from this at all, that we are getting into the red vs blue debate. Just a way of saying dem vs rep. Remember, no political banter, unless it deals with the thread (hence the warning as of now). :)
    triploidjunkie likes this.
  10. Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Posts: 2,317
    bellingham wa
    Ratings: +565 / 0
    I'm a big fan of America. I love that it is a large country with many different cultures. I also love that you get to live where you want. I don't begrudge someone because of where they were born or raised. That is just plain stupid.

    I do have a hard time understanding people who are pround of having lived in one state or place their entire life. I truly just can't understand not wanting to experience living in different places.

    Go Sox,
    BakerSean1, dfl, Yard Sale and 3 others like this.
  11. Krusty Active Member

    Posts: 928
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +613 / 0
    Having lived in a number of places during my service years, I always wanted to return to Washington....none of the others ever felt like home.

    It is easier for people who've never set down roots (generations of ancestors, children, and grandchildren) in a community or region to simply pick up and move....and they sometimes find that others aren't going to invest emotional capital in developing more than a superficial relationship with such people. It's not a judgment, just decision by the deeply rooted to conserve emotional resources.

    The interesting thing is that the frequency of Americans relocating themselves and their families is at an all time low....and it predates the Great Recession and aftermath.
    triploidjunkie likes this.
  12. Vladimir Steblina Retired fishing instead of working

    Posts: 734
    Wenatchee, WA
    Ratings: +240 / 0
  13. Travis Bille Active Member

    Posts: 664
    McKinleyville, CA
    Ratings: +369 / 0
    It's forecast to dump rain this weekend!
  14. Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Posts: 2,317
    bellingham wa
    Ratings: +565 / 0
    That's a very interesting explaination, and it doesn't make much sense to me. I've had some awesome short duration relationships before. They were worth having, even if they ended because I moved. Maybe it's just a situation where different peoples brains work differently.

    Go Sox,
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  15. Krusty Active Member

    Posts: 928
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +613 / 0
    I guess I've always had, and treasured, a few 'friends for life', rather than a large number of transient acqaintenances. I wanted my children, and grandchildren, to be more than long distance phonecalls (nowadays skype!) and occasional poorly remembered visits. Place, and community, have deep emotional meaning in my family's personal world. I guess 'awesome short duration relationships' aren't what my particular family cherishes. When 'the chips are down' (as they will, at some time, be for every human being) where will such people fit in...where would I be for them?

    I suspect these preferences are determined by early experiences; I've known a large number of people who've left behind a succession of wives and discarded children. It's just foreign to me...having been married to the same wonderful woman for nearly 50 years, and seeing my offspring grow-up on a daily basis. Gypsies begat gypsies....and I don't mean that in a derogatory way. You can't fathom what you've never known.
  16. Rick Todd Active Member

    Posts: 1,861
    Ratings: +237 / 0
    I saw on the news that Cali would need hard rain every other day through May to get out of the water crisis!
  17. Drifter Active Member

    Posts: 1,635
    Ratings: +648 / 2
    Well that's ok! they will just sell there 2 bedroom home for half a million and buy property along your river and close down all public access. Your river will be next!
    Kaiserman likes this.
  18. Robert Engleheart Robert

    Posts: 1,147
    Lemoore, CA
    Ratings: +112 / 0
    Ca went through this before; early 90's we had the "miracle March" that dumped all month and brought us out of it. We need snow, more than rain. It appears the ridge of high pressure has been broken by last week's storm and there may be more headed this way.
    In reference to the topic, I've lived in the Sonoran Desert,Oregon, Alaska and California. If I didn't have grandkids near me, I'd be elsewhere but I haven't found that perfect spot in 60 years. I'm with Krusty, moved a lot as a kid and later as a construction worker, I went where the work was, never been one to sit. Ended up in CA as I could work 54 weeks/year if I wanted to, that wasn't happening anywhere else in the 80's. Then I decided I wanted to let my kids finish school where they started and keep some stability in their lives. I've been a lot worse places and it's only as bad as you want to make it. I'm 50 miles from the high Sierra, 85 miles from the Ocean, lot further for Steel, but no traffic to speak of and my home cost a fraction of Seattle/PDX prices. 9 months a year we have perfect weather, 3 months are Africa hot. Get out of town.
    Vladimir, can't agree with you on solar, I pay about 10 cents/KWH, I know yours is less, but not 20X. And I'm not getting mine from hydro (I think) that's so good for our favorite fish. Military moving out of CA? Not at the Naval Air Station in my home town that's grown exponentially over the last decade. Nor at many other bases in the state. Yes, some were closed and others relocated, but that was a national event that coincided with the end of the cold war, no?
    I will agree with you re: "carrying capacity"; but what's the answer? In that sense, CA is a sign of the future of many other western states, I think.
    Keep ragging on CA, though, mebbe more people will leave here and move to the beautiful Evergreen State (as in Grant Co.).
    Best regards,:)
    Dan Nelson likes this.
  19. Jim Paget Active Member

    Posts: 100
    Ratings: +38 / 0
    There has "always" been a disconnect in California between where the population is centered and the supply of water. If you ever saw the PBS series on the National Parks you saw that San Francisco's water primarily comes from the Hetch Hetchy reservoir in the Sierras. My first wife's great grandfather was the first water engineer of San Francisco. He was the one that sited Hetch Hetchy. The family horseback camped for two summers as a cover for looking for the site of the dam. Even in those days, there was well-founded fear that if word leaked out as to the preferred site that speculators would buy up the land, driving up the price of the dam site.
    Krusty likes this.
  20. Krusty Active Member

    Posts: 928
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +613 / 0

    I think what is frequently lost in contemporary thought regarding such matters is that the 'technologists' of that era were just trying to meet human needs....and that our 'solutions' to subsequent problems may well be fraught with surprises. We really don't know as much as we think we do.