Sick to my stomach to see my favorite restaurant serving wild steelhead

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by TC, Sep 11, 2011.

  1. Ryan Nathe Member

    Posts: 836
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    It is true that 'wild' means a fish spawned in the wild irrespective of parental lineage, but when people say 'wild' I truly think they mean 'native'. The best, most cost effective way to reduce and eliminate future hatchery influences is to stop planting hatchery fish and in the meantime to harvest all fish that are KNOWN to be hatchery fish, ie fin clipped. While not all hatchery fish are fin clipped, NOT A SINGLE 'wild or native' fish has a fin clip.
  2. Dan Nelson Hiker, Fisher, Writer, Bum

    Posts: 810
    Puyallup, WA
    Ratings: +336 / 5
    FYI: Here's another angle on the "wild steelhead/wild salmon" marketing scams that take place in restaurants and stores:

    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/sep/03/fishing-for-fakes/

    From the story:

    "A study this year by the University of Washington-Tacoma found that 38 percent of fish ordered in restaurants was not what it was billed when genetic tests were conducted."
  3. Drifter Active Member

    Posts: 1,631
    Ratings: +638 / 2
    So what we want is "FAKE NATIVES" ok i get it now . but i don't want fake natives now what ?

    saying wild fish are native is false to me - but that's just me i must be an idiot . when i started fishing they were called native and it stayed that way for years until recently . now its a WILD THING throwing in the fact that hatchery fish have spawned and do make up a lot of the WILD strain in our rivers . but now you've explained it for me and i get it - fake natives = "wild" and natives means "native" - i get it !!!

    so again are "wild" fish good for our native strains ? its a simple question .
  4. Ryan Nathe Member

    Posts: 836
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    Fishcentral, you are obviously twisting words to defend your view. You want to keep that status quo,( continuing to harvest hatchery fish and possibly unclipped fish?) and that is fine (wrong, but you are entitled to your own view), but to misconstrue what I said as defending 'fake natives' is kind of ridiculous.

    No, unclipped hatchery strain fish are not good for natives. I dont think anyone was saying they were, but it is not currently possible to tell the difference streamside.
  5. Ryan Nathe Member

    Posts: 836
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    Wild does not necessarily mean 'fake native', we both know this.
  6. Drifter Active Member

    Posts: 1,631
    Ratings: +638 / 2
    Thanks the point i was trying to make was that hatchery origin wild fish are not good for native fish . that's simple - if we are going to be happy with wild hatchery stock in the rivers we are still not protecting native fish . i'm all for native fish , i'm just not for saying that hatchery strain wild fish are OK and stocked fish are not . thinking that - that's all we have to do . save the true natives or have hatchery stock plants for the take . its just my view of things .
  7. TC I live with wind knots

    Posts: 161
    Bothell, WA
    Ratings: +9 / 0
    Wow, Ok, what a fun little discussion and I have learned a bit reading through this. However, all this sounds a bit like Eugenics to me. FishCentral says, and I guess many agree, that "Native" are superior to hatchery that have turned wild. It sounds like this is an undebatable fact. OK. though I am not sure I follow. "Native" fight stronger? prove it. where did the hatchery genes come from? "Native" would have to be the only viable answer. So the original hatchery grew up on crap food. soilent green. cool. but not learning that blood lust fight of a true warrior/survivor. I get that. But then their spawn go out, eat all the same stuff, fight the same battles as the old "native" warriors do, and are less of a steelhead because of their bloodline? c'mon. Our country was formed to get away from that elitist bullshit right?

    Look, Hatcheries were formed due to the depleting resource, with some success, but certainly not enough. And not enough that when the spawn grow to be a wild steelhead, that we can go commercially harvesting all over the place. That is why I hate to see "Wild Steelhead" in a restaurant. Farmed? Ok, your choice if you want to eat it or not.

    If I am wrong about this, and the hatchery industrial complex is such a horrible thing to "Native" them educate me with real Eugenics science. Cool?
  8. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,445
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,623 / 2
    This is more than I can type up on my mobile device, but I'll just say that hatcheries do more to replace steelhead stocks than to supplement them.
  9. Ryan Nathe Member

    Posts: 836
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    There are a ton of peer reviewed scientific articles available on the internet showing why hatchery fish are a horrible thing towards natives. There have even been threads on this fishing forum with articles attached. Search one of the recent Elwha threads if you are interested in the cold hard science. It is out there, easily found.
  10. ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

    Posts: 3,209
    Eagle River, Alaska
    Ratings: +112 / 0
    hatchery salmon are marketed as wild fish all the time... 10% of copper river sockeye (the best sockeye in the world or whatever BS there is) are hatchery...

    I think the root of the problem is there are hatcheries at all. Until we stop stocking hatchery fish (that need to be harvested) hatchery fish will continue to be targeted in non selective ways (like bait fishing).
  11. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,400
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,357 / 9
    TC, I respect your approach to inform your local restaurant first before outing them. I'll take your deal.
  12. PT Physhicist

    Posts: 3,548
    Edmonds, WA
    Ratings: +719 / 2
    +1

    Wild in many cases now just means wild caught, not farm raised. The fish may very well be hatchery fish but are wild caught. That's where this discussion went a different direction because of the harvest methods involved in bringing hatchery fish to market. It'd be nice if they were hatchery fish but taken from a weir or something similar near a hatchery where they are returning. That would serve the purpose of the fish. Not the answer, but better than the alternative.
  13. TC I live with wind knots

    Posts: 161
    Bothell, WA
    Ratings: +9 / 0
    I did, and also went "wild" on the internet. thanks Ryan, I do see the degradation of the "Native" stock and how it depletes the population in general. counter-intuitive, but researched well by Nickelson, Chilcote et.al. all of this has been very educational.
  14. TC I live with wind knots

    Posts: 161
    Bothell, WA
    Ratings: +9 / 0
    It makes even more sick to my stomach!!!!