Single Foot Guides

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by TallFlyGuy, Sep 23, 2007.

  1. Anyone tried single foot guides on their spey rod? I mean not just the first two guides, but up the whole rod.

    How about the the Silicon Carbide guides. The claim is polished "SIC" rings are 12 times harder, dissipate heat four times faster and are one-third the weight of stainless steel. The result of course is longer shooting casts, and less wear on your lines.

    Just curious

    Justin
     
  2. I used single foots on a 13' rod I built. It is quite unconventional. I consulted with some folks who understand fly rods and what their weak points are before doing this (e.g. Kerry Batson, Dan Craft). I was concerned about the pure strength of the guides and wraps when I started to reel in all those 20# steelhead (ha). It was pointed out to me that there are plenty of rods with single foots that pull in very large fish. As far as rod action goes, it is my understanding that single foots don't change rod action much as compared to the same rod with double foot guides. Contrary to what I would think but that is what a lot folks say. The biggest impact is that it makes the rod lighter which is what I was trying to do (besides being easier to wrap (half the number of feet if my math is correct) but the difference is pretty minor in the bigger scheme of things).

    Having said all that, if I build another doublehander I will use double foots if for no reason other than tradition.

    I like silicon guides all the way up on single hand rods for say 5 or 6 weight or heavier and light single foot guides for 4 weight and under (I personnally like REC recoils) but for spey rods, I think people lean away from them because there is less shooting of line and more of dealing with a lot arielized (I love that word) line. They are also heavier which will affect action especially as you get out there on the rod so it is more pronounced on a spey rod than a typical 9 footer.

    Another other reason some folks like silicon guides is corrosion resistance (if you use some that are good in that department (titanium:eek:)) which is nice when fishing in the salt but almost all spey fishing is in freshwater.

    I am curious as to what others have to say on this and curious as to whether I am the only one on the planet with single feet on a spey rod.
     

  3. Good points Jim..

    I would think with the single foot silicon Titanium guides, you would actually reduce the weight overall. With the extra string to wrap, as well as extra epoxy on the wraps, it should make it heavier using double footed guides compared to single foot guides. Interesting to say the least.

    Justin
     
  4. Jim, not to hijack this thread, but Im confused on the statement that single foot guids are easier to wrap. Im really a very green, amateur builder. However, I founf single foot guides being harder to wrap. I found it was harder to keep them in place while actually wrapping and harder to keep aligned. With two foot guides I can have one foot taped while I wrap the other foot. Everything stays in place nicely, and I spend less timee trying to wiggle the guide into place after Im done.
    So what's your trick?????
     
  5. I used single foot guides (not strippers) on a forecast 12'6" I built. They seem to work fine and really cant say if they make a differnce or not. I also used single foots on the tip section of the 11'6" forecast I built as I had read somewhere it was supposed to "help out" the action a little. Again I used standard wire singles, no inserts so cant comment on the insert part. I think Bob Meiser talked about the use of single foots guides in his article on building two handed rods if Im not mistaken. A search should turn up the article somewhere. So far they have held up fine and perform well enough. I think I will stick with snakes though as I just like em better. Sloan for singles I use that guide glue stuff (sparingly) to get the quide on where I like then I cut a narrow piece of masking tape and wrap that around the guide foot ( carefully though as you dont want to lift the front of the guide off the blank) then wrap up the guide foot and when you get to the tape remove it and finish off your wrap. Kevin
     
  6. The only issue I can see with using single foot guides is with the use of multi tip lines. As the loops go through the guides they sometimes will catch and jam. If you get a hot fish on and it rips the loops through all of the guides you run the chance of pulling a single foot out. As far as changing the action, it hard to tell.
     
  7. Thanks Kevin. It still sounds more complicated than convetional guides, which confuses me as Jim says its easier.
     
  8. Sloan,

    My main point in saying it is easier is that there are half as many feet to wrap, ignoring the strippers:eek: of course. But I have very little trouble holding the feet in place while wrapping.

    I use the medical tubing approach and found it to be the best for me. The trick is finding a couple of sizes of tubing that will handle the various sizes you would need - there is a big difference between the lower end of a large rod and any tip. Once the thread has a grip, cut off the tubing. Fuel line tubing sold by hobby shops for gas powered remote control cars works good. It is cheap. You simply cut it into very small o-rings. I usually tape the top couple of guides as the tubing isn't small enough. You can also buy small o-rings at a place like Lowes'. Used to be able to anyway. Blue masking tape cut into very thin strips and wrapped on tightly also works well.

    I also use 2 or 3 locking wraps when I get to the ring finished with a couple of regular wraps. Makes me feel like it is stronger. Not sure it really is.

    Wrapping double foots are easier but for me, but not by much.

    Kevin - I think you are right about Bob Mieser writing about using single foots on switch/two handed rods. I am guessing enough snooping around on his web site might lead you to the discussion. One could just call him and ask for his opinion on the matter. I tried to do that when I was getting ready to buy but he was at a clave as I recall.

    Justin - as to whether titaniums with SIC inserts are lighter than the extra thread and epoxy, I am not sure. I think the titaniums still come out a little heavier. I am sure someone on rod.building.org could say for sure. I would be curious to know. I put Titans on my beach rod. Spendy but they'll withstand a nuclear blast.
     
  9. I recently purchases an Echo Classic Spey rod which has sf guides. They are kind of noisy as you work the head out. After that. no problem. My own personal opinion is that a lot of what you hear, pro or con, is hype. They are probably cheaper for high volume rod manufactures as there are only half as many wraps. But that may be offset by higher purchase price. The Echo rod works well enough for me I don't lose any sleep over the guides.
     
  10. Justin,

    I built a 7/8 Batson two hander with single foot guides. Seemed to work just fine. You can borrow it if you want to see what you think.

    Mark
     
  11. I think they are easier because you cut your wrapping in half, which if you are doing any intricate wraps can be a lot of work.
     
  12. Yeah, i wasn't seeing the forest for the trees. :beathead:

    Thanks everyone for not getting down on me for a stupid question like that.
     
  13. Sloan, No big deal. You can get masking tape that is about 1/8 inch wide. Just use that on the guides when you start them. Using single foot guides on one handers goes so fast! I'm thinking of putting a two hander together this winter. We'll see.

    Justin
     
  14. Sounds good Mark. Just run it over to me tomorrow.... Ok :D


    Did you ever get that Burk lined/figured out?

    Justin
     
  15. i would love to come by tomorrow and drop it off, get my fall kalama slamma ('nook, coho, steel). I could send the rod out to you and get it from you when I come out there in December. It's not getting much use out here. The steelhead run on the Provo river is really crappy this year. :)

    As for the Burkie, I'm just going to buy a windcutter 8/9/10 and I think that will fix 'er up.
     
  16. lucky hold off on the rio 8910 I have a new line you will want to try and a new rod (echo DH) unlike the clasic it has snake guides. The DH rod costs less than the clasic so its not a money thing. I still like snake guides on my two handers.
     
  17. I haven't used single foot guides on any fly rods I've built. And I don't intend to. Partly I prefer the look of traditional snake guides. Second, rods get bashed around a lot in service, in boats and in beating through the brush. I feel that a single foot guide is more vulnerable to being bent or pulled off the rod, and perhaps compromising its serviceability. If I ever get too lazy to wrap guides with two feet, I'll probably just discontinue rod making.

    Sg
     
  18. Marty, I sent you a PM
     
  19. I think it's more of a performance issue, not a laziness or durability issue. I was thinking it might be the best of both worlds. Less wraps and less epoxy on the rod equals lighter rod and better rod performance. On top of that, if the guides dissipate heat better, are slicker, and lighter than regular snake guides, why not go to them? Easy they are hella expensive. For the Sic titanium guides, I think they are over $130 just for the guides themselves on a spey rod.
     
  20. Something quoted from Meiser in an article.

    "Rods that are specifically built to be used as two handed overhead rods are a bit of a different breed. With them, there is a real advantage to using full ceramic guide systems. These rods are designed to throw a wide variety of shooting head, and advanced weight forward line systems. These specialized lines will often utilize braided mono, or even braided spectra running lines. Most of the time, the running line is what will be in contact with the guide system, not the heads. Braided mono, and especially braided Spectra can wear through non-ceramic guides quite easily. The full use of ceramics for this application now becomes quite practical. I prefer the Fuji LSG-SICs or the CLAG Alconites for the runners, and the higher standing SVSG SICs or standard height CLNAG Alconites for the strippers. The solid Titanium framed ceramics have excellent applications in salt water environments. They are not only absolutely functional, but look beautiful on these sleek, thoroughbred two handed rods. The Fuji TSGs single foot’s and the TSVSGs double leg strippers are excellent."

    With the shooting heads and shooting line that the skagit lines are so well known for, it might also be advantageous to use the ceramic guides Bob mentions above.
    Justin
     

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