size of flies?

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by kimosabe, Jul 1, 2007.

  1. TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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    Vancouver, WA.
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    Ahh, Poppy my man, Then I have won A TON! of rounds LOL.:beer2: :rofl: :beer2:

    Maybe I should have that outlook.

    Justin
  2. inland Active Member

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    Tall,

    Getting your pocket picked one time doesn't mean crapola. For well longer then a hundred years people have been catching steelhead on simple hairwings and the past 20 years, especially the past 10, they all of sudden don't work??? Righteeoo.

    IF you don't fish hairwings they surely don't work. IF they don't stay on your line for more then 20 minutes/season they surely don't work. IF they were on your line for an entire season you would catch just as many fish. Tie a giant hairwing the same size and profile as your 'strike inducing' superflies and see what happens.

    From July to mid October (or later depending on the river) I NEVER fish anything bigger then a size 4 ultra sparse wet (hairwings and tiny speys) east of Bonneville. Usually a size 6. Always on a floater. Or size 4/6/8 wakers (much more fun for me). It's how you fish not what. Time has proven it ALL works so I choose to fish tiny stuff.

    Man you guys must be ultra competitive to get this worked up over one fish pulled from your boots all because you weren't dredging your kwickfish imitation...

    William
  3. TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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    Will, I didn't say that hairwings didn't work.

    I'll wager you get outfished 2 to 1 when others use sink tips, but maybe you like the challenge of floating line and all that. Commendable yes.

    kwickfish imitation, Ok thats just a little much.

    Justin
  4. Red Shed "junkyard spey"

    Posts: 517
    Peck, ID
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    The above statment may fly on some rivers you fish but I don't think it will fly on the Clearwater. If it was true all the old time regulars would be fishing tips and mega bugs. They are not!

    As to the challenge, I'll take moving a fish to my fly on a floating line any day over using a sinktip to move my fly to the fish. It is definitely not the same thing.
  5. inland Active Member

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    Tall,

    No, you basically said they aren't as effective as your superflies.

    William
  6. Steelie Mike Active Member

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    Camas, WA
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    Someone is getting worked up enough to throw down insults. Poppy and Justin(Tall) know each other and are having a discussion, Adam(Pan) and Justin are just getting acquainted, you are just trying to stir the pot.
  7. Verne Member

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    I know that I can't wait to get rid of the tips and start fishing a dry line in the summer. I have found the steelhead respond very well to flies fished with a dry line. I have also found size 4 or 6 flies fished just under the surface film are very attractive to local steelhead. I don't use too many hairwing flies anymore as I have come to prefer maribou for a wing. You can weight any of them if you wish to fish deeper with a floating line, but it detracts from the pleasure of casting.
  8. TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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    OH come on now poppy, You know the real reason.....The old timers just don't know how to cast a sinktip, and they don't want to break from those silly traditions:D :D

    Well welcome Verne. I'm glad this thread has brought some new meat, er, I mean new people to it! You wouldn't happen to be an old timer from the Clearwater area would you?:eek: :D

    I would like to catch a steelhead on a dry fly, I just can't force myself to put on the floating line and a skater. Casting would be a pleasure. Casting big flies on tips is a skill in itself almost. When I do on rare occasions use hairwings, and I cast, it's like, Holy crap, did you just see that cast.
  9. Red Shed "junkyard spey"

    Posts: 517
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    My friend Inland does like to stir the pot. Sometimes what he adds is a little spicy for everyone's taste but he has a lot of knowledge about the subject at hand and chrome in general. I do wish he would spend his idle time persuing his high art of making metal shavings rather then inciting some members of this forum. I really don't think he is any more opininated then the rest of us but the brash manner in which he likes to post rankles a lot of people.
    I will say that he is very good at what he does whether it is catching Clearwater chrome, turning metal into high art, or rankling posters on spey rod forums.:cool:
  10. Panhandle Active Member

    Posts: 4,103
    Selkirk Mountains, Idaho Panhandle
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    I think Poppy and William reiterated what I was trying to express, though, like Mike pointed out, William tends to cut to the point with out rounding off the edges like most of us do. Tall, I think that on the wet side you are right. As a native Oregonian, I grew up fishing big leaches and such. However, the triggering response you get from big flies over there---- are not necessary over here, as aren't sink tips. I rarely fished anything less dense than a type III year round in western Oregon growing up, with the exception of the N. Umpqua. I believe that the apple and oranges here is the wet side vs. east side steelhead personalities. I do not believe you would do better than someone like Inland on sink-tips and Leaches on the Clearwater, because the guy is a hell of a fisherman and knows what he is doing on that river, and really, that's what it comes down to. Look forward to having a beer with ya all at the Clave in September.:beer2:
  11. Will Atlas Guest

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    Maybe I missed something, but I dont think it really is a wet or dry side matter. People have been catching fish on dries and small wets on the west side of the state for as long as people have been fishing steelhead with a flyrod. Its a matter of confidence and patience, as we all know too well there just arent that many steelhead around (especially in pugetropolis).
  12. Panhandle Active Member

    Posts: 4,103
    Selkirk Mountains, Idaho Panhandle
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    You're denying there's a difference between catching steelhead on floating lines and wakers- west side vs. east side?.... Come on now:confused:
  13. Will Atlas Guest

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    No just saying, in my mind there isnt a substantial difference in the effectiveness of a dryline v. a tip/large flies on the west side in summer. I really dont have enough experience on the east side to know too much about that.
  14. Red Shed "junkyard spey"

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    Will Atlas you have hit the nail on the head!


    Have you guys had the pleasure of reading Dryline Steelhead by Bill McMillan, Steelhead Fly Fishing or Steelhead Fly Fishing and Flies both by Trey Combs? There are some other authors you should also search out. Enos Bradner, Bob Arnold, Bill Stinson, to name three more.

    After you read those books and studied the anglers talked about you might change your views somewhat.

    The successful use of hairwings on both the "wet" side and the east side is well documented in some of the great steelhead fly fishing books of our time.

    I certainly give the BIG articulated flies and string leeches their due but hairwings have been and will be forever at the forefront of steelhead fly fishing in the western US.

    Yes any of you boys that make it over here are more then welcome to argue this issue all night down in front of the shop. Just remember if you get drunk and rowdy Poppy keeps a G27 stuck in his waistband.
  15. inland Active Member

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    Poppy my man...I NEVER stir the pot. Okay, maybe once in a while. But it's just for fun. 6 months and it's full time metal working. Have to finish up yours and Aaron's protos in the meantime. Haven't you noticed I don't spend nearly as much time rankling?

    Willum
  16. TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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    Poppy, there was an article/exerpt from the book "Steelhead flyfishing in Nez Pierce County", in the Salmon Trout Steelheader magazine awhile back. If I recall correctly, the guide that wrote it preferred big articulated leeches on the Clearwater.

    Yes, I'm sure hairwings will be in the limelight for sometime, simply because those authors and many others tell people to use em. And I hope everyone still goes on useing em.:) Seriously, if someone who has never been introduced to steelhead fishing, what flies is he gonna use? And since he is using those flies, what is he gonna hook up with his first steelhead on? Now what is he gonna have confidence in?:hmmm: It's a glorious/vicous cycle.

    Justin
  17. Red Shed "junkyard spey"

    Posts: 517
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    Did the above guide also say that he fishes out of the boat instead of parking above a run and letting his anglers cast and step down the run? Basically what the guide is doing is "hotshotting" the flies in the slots. A single hand rod with a super fast sink head is the tool of choice for this method. For the most part the "dude isn't casting/swinging and stepping down but rather sitting there waiting for the fly to bump the fish on the nose. The dude is not using any skill to fish his fly. It is the guides skill at positioning the boat. It is an effective method but hotshotting flies from a boat is out of the relm of this discussion, at least as I see it.

    The above statement is the thinnest and silliest argument you've put forth yet. If you are stating that all the anglers mentioned in the books I pointed out are using hairwings and wakers because someone told them to then my friend I doubt you have read these books and studied the methods of the anglers mentioned.

    I can agree it's a glorious cycle. I'm not sure how vicious it is. I don't think any of the hairwing camp
    have started to shoot people we see fishing the BIG fuzzy stuff on a sinktip. As you know my moto is cast/fish whatever works for you.

    For me, I would rather take just one fish a season "on my terms" (floating line/hairwing wet) then to catch a boatload using a tip and a bunny.:cool:
  18. Steelie Mike Active Member

    Posts: 1,600
    Camas, WA
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    I was just talking to a good friend the other week about trying to find one of McMillan's old paperbacks. Maybe Amato has got one on the back shelf still. I will find a copy one of these days. Bill who loved and fished the Washougal River, lived in the area I currently reside. It is depressing thinking about what he experienced and wrote about that occured minutes from my home. For youthat do not know, the Washougal has no access and there are homes everywhere. In regards to Combs's Steelhead Fly Fishing, it has been in my work bag for the last year. I take it out frequently during the middle fo the night when I have some downtime. It is a great read and a bible for many.


    All this talk about the Dry Side is getting me excited to go back over there. I might have to spend a couple weeks over there now. My wife will love that. :beer2:
  19. TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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    Poppy, No it wasn't with a boat. The guide talked about spey casting and spey rods and how much of an advantage they are over singlehanded rods as well as swinging. Wish I could find that damn article. Does anyone have the book?

    I'm not saying the authors were told they have to use hairwings. I'm saying the authors and most others in steelhead flyfishing tell/recommend others to use hairwings. It's tradition. It's whats been done for eeons, so why change it up.

    It reminds me of the story in Trey Combs' book "Steelhead Flyfishing" on page 453. Here Bob Hull introduces the String Leech to Bob Clay, Lani Waller, and Trey Combs. All of them make fun of it saying "can you make it do tricks" etc. By the end of the a couple of days, of course Bob Clay stuck to tradition and didn't change up, but Trey and Lani saw the effectiveness of the leech over their "traditional" patterns saying, "Bob (hull) couldn't keep the steelhead away", and began bartering for a couple of those flies.

    Very commendable.:beer2: For me, It's a boatload, using whatever fly works for me the best.:cool:
  20. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,764
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
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    Why limit yourself to any specific manner of fishing or type of fly. I fish both sinktips and floaters, hairwings, marabou, spun hair, you name it. I match the method and fly to the water/fish I am fishing. There is a stretch of water on the Ronde I will start with a sinktip with a hairwing and move to a floater with a spun bug by the time I am finished fishing it. I have worked this water and caught fish with a tip and with the floater and a waking fly during the same pass through this section.