skagit vs. the world.

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Panhandle, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Just got done reading 24 pages of debate on spey pages about how skagit casting is for mentally challenged, subhumans. I fish almost exclusively skagit. Its what I know and what works. If I want to go to heaven though, I better get my ass moving with a long belly before my soul is forever lost. On that page exists the silliest thing I have ever read on any forum. I'm going to paraphrase this guys comment.

    " I was on the clearwater watching this guy fish this run with a guide. I approached the guide and asked why his client was skagiting. The guide said that he couldn't talk his client out of it. The client didn't catch a fish of course. But guess what happened when he stepped into the run with his longbelly.......you guessed it, he caught a fish. That's right, he directly attributed his line and likewise purity to why he caught the fish. That's some funny shit and really captures the rediculous debate over which way you two -hand is "righter."Justifies
     
  2. Luke77

    Luke77 I hope she likes whitefish

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    But wait, I thought the Skagit was the developed in order to fish MORE effectively in certain water, where the Scandi couldn't? So how is evolutionary improvement considered bad?

    I guess it comes down to this, every group of people will still find a way to segregate themselves from the others. With fly fishing, you're not cool unless you only swing for steelhead. For the guys that only swing, you must be a fool if you do it with a skagit.
     
  3. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    I always knew I was mentally challenged. I did not know I was sub-human. Cool!

    I find the debates over what line, what rod, what reel, what fly, what tip, what cast, what ever, a waste of time. Fish what you like.

    One of the guys I fish with throws long bellies. He likes them. I like watching him cast 'cause it looks cool. I don't give him shit for it. I throw short bellies around. He doesn't give me any grief about it. Sometimes we trade rods. He isn't as good with my short line as I am but he gets it out there. I am not as good with the long line as my friend is but I can throw it fair enough. Yeah, I know guys that cast short bellies can't cast long bellies. Ok, sure. I enjoy playing around with the long lines but when it comes down to what I am on the river to do which is to catch fish I will stick to my shorties. Which one of us catches more fish? I do of course.
     
  4. Leroy Laviolet

    Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

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    do'n it 4 the chinookie
    Rut roe, yer bored ...
    POPCORN, getcha POPCORN !!!
     
  5. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    the truth is that skagit, scandi, and long lines are not the true path. both are extreme.

    the mid length lines are the true middle path.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. jeff bandy

    jeff bandy Make my day

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    You waded through that 24 page clusterfuck. I would have blamed it on shacknasties but it started on Dec 5th.
     
  7. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    I perused through it. You get the gist of it in one page, the rest is just entertainment.
     
  8. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Didn't they end up locking that thread? I may need to head back over and see.

    Yep, locked up. Thought so.
     
  9. stilly stalker

    stilly stalker Tuna sniffer

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    But put a long belly line against Skagit head and T14 for fishing kings....who will catch more? People who fish for summer/fall run fish may do just as well, but I think whn the waters deep and cold Skagit is king. Which is exactly what skagit casting was invented for. Go figure
     
  10. speyforsteel

    speyforsteel Degenerate Caster

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    At times a long belly can catch more fish.
    Other times a Skagit head can catch more.
    Yet other times a scandie head could rule the roost.
    To say one is ALWAYS better is the sure sign of a achievement certificate at a tard academy.
    A center pin and guts-now we're talkin global domination yet even guts and a pin can be bested with a teeny tiny fly at times.
    I've witnessed that occur a couple of times now with steelhead.
     
  11. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    Sounds like a mid-winter discussion that amounts to splitting hairs, then splitting the split hairs again, then once again splitting the double-split hairs a third time. I mean, the debate is about a niche (long belly vs. short head) within a niche (spey) within a niche (flyfishing). That's a pretty microscopic topic for anyone to get heated up about.
     
  12. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't give two craps what line you are using. I may be envious of what you can do with your line and skills, but that is a different matter. I have skagit lines for each of my two handers, airflo deltas (not longs) for them (which I think most still call short bellies...just at the long end) and I really don't care what anyone else thinks about the line I'm using. Maybe when I catch fish on every cast I can try a more challenging 80' belly line. Skagit lines and skagit casting is a delivery system that works in my humble hands. That is all that matters to me.
     
  13. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    A bunch of east coast asshats that have been throwing clothes line with a two handed club for a year or two thinking they have this crap all figured out and for some reason have a need to tell the rest of the spey world that we don't know shit.
     
  14. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Amen, Kerry! Many of these online two-hand gurus turn out to be intermediate, at best, casters when away from the computer. :rofl:
     
  15. g_smolt

    g_smolt Recreational User

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    Learn all the casts and techniques for all different line types, use 'em when you need 'em, and don't forget the pin setup and the bobber rod.

    It's just fishing, for fuck's sake.
     
  16. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    I think partially it's a canadian thing...as far as speypages...I learned my casting and fishing for the most part up there and lost a good half season because I was told only knobs fished skagits and tried to use a cnd gps line on a 13 soft rod...was horrible...sink tip on that line doesn't like heavy flies and I struggled mightily...Part of it I attribute to the "classical" learning curve of a british property...

    Fish our rivers, especially the skagit and you'll understand why that line was developed...your not fishing bars for the most part, your walking out from the trees...try throwing a longer line and the D loop will tangle constantly...

    I've argued with many that part of learning ANY casting style is the method..what these guys don't get is when your throwing distances over a hundred feet part of the skagit or scandi cast is learning to deal with your running line and having the power stroke to throw it in current....

    All that said, I've found that mid bellies etc. don't fit me anymore as I'm just not into the rotation etc. and it's effect on my body all day....I do like the fall favorite or vector line at roughly 50' heads...but again..with a decent running line these heads with long leaders etc. can easily be used out to whatever your max casting distance is...they are a lot easier to cast long distance and will work in good winds too....a mid/long line is normally 110-120' .. with a decent running line 130' in my unskilled hands and 150' in the good guys hands are pretty attainable...So what's the point?

    On the rivers like the clearwater etc. you need long casts and small flies..so using a mid/long or fall fav. type line is a very good choice....You don't want to be plunking something heavy out there...you use long leaders and small flies and it's a stealth thing to some degree...it's a fuck of a lot easier to use the proper head out there....Most guys using skagits don't understand that with a floating tip on there you need a heavier head to compensate for the weight of your tip...so they struggle trying to throw their winter heads with a floater...

    All part of the curve and nobody is right....just what you choose to use and FISH IT EFFECTIVELY!!!!
     
  17. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Good post, Golf.
     
  18. speyday

    speyday Rod tubes in the overhead compartment

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    I'm a utilitarian, and there are so many different tools within flyfishing that I know there is a right tool for the job at the moment. Longbelly guys would have a hard time fishing dirty 36 degree water from December thru march. they might wrestle with small water with wood, or abrubtly contured holes and lies that are often slightly bigger than a bathtub.

    Skagit guys might have difficulty fishing clear water to fish that might get turned on and jiggy when something is skating on the surface. Those fish might have a great sight-seeing vantage point. Who knows, they might turn their nose up at sunken stuff--- and the resulting 20 feet of rope they can see so well just upstream of the offering. (the example in the OP makes me wonder if that could have been the reason)

    If my fish acted like those on the North Umpqua, or babine, I would most assuredly switch to a different tool. Even if the majority of our fish were wild, I'd be tempted. But they don't act that way here. And they aren't all wild, and many arent F1 fish (wild parents) any longer except for MI fish. They are F2 inbred fish that are at times, retarded and respond to glo bugs mostly. I believe our fish aren't as prone to chase as PNW fish.

    But that aint happening, so pass the t-20 and scissors. I need to really tempt the fish, and getting it right at eye level 'quickly' is important.
     
  19. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

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    A good friend once told me that the hardest part about spey casting is telling your parents that you're gay.

    Then Skagit lines came along. Spey casting is now officially bisexual.
     
  20. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Good chuckle Flyborg.

    Pan,

    I read the progression of that thread and was fairly astonished at the degree of hair-splitting. Part of me wants to chalk it up to me not being that well educated about Spey casting. The other part of me notes that when actually on the rivers and observing other casters and fishermen, I'm really not such a duffer.

    I started with a DT10F and struggled but could always count on a roll cast to deliver my fly. Then I made my first Skagit heads that weren't that good, but caught fish anyway. Then I finally bought a bunch of Orvis short belly lines on close-out that I actually like to cast and fish with. I guess they are sort of "Windcutter-ish". Then 3 Christmases ago got my first Skagit line, and it is by far the best method of delivering sink tips and or weighted flies. I'm guessing that people that don't get that probably didn't get or take physics either.

    Sg