skagit vs. the world.

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Panhandle, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    That's GOOD to hear and yup it can...around some of the S rivers it's a bitch trying to get the backcast room and i.e. why the line was invented partially and weight and tips the other...swing a classic on ANY line or rod stands up pretty big in my book so panties un knotted...though it felt more like a thong...

    you should check out Wallers two dvd set of steelhead fishing...The first dvd is all single hand from way back in the day and I still learned more from that dvd about steelheading today then any other dvd I've watched in a long time....Second one is Ok...great eye candy up on the babine and you get to see Bob Clay who's my new hero....but he explains why he went with a spey rod over the single hander in it and it makes sense....

    I guess what is lost in this whole silly argument is the fact that some of us use all of these different lines and systems...including single handers on some small systems with summer runs...Kind of sucks skating a bug on a 15' leader with a skagit...sure it can be done...but why...equally why stand out there with your mid belly and an 10' section of sink tip and weighted fly and pretend that your being a "real" spey fisherman when a skagit and sinktip will do the job so much easier?

    All systems, rods, lines, presentations..take some time to learn..but all are equally rewarding when used in the proper method.....Part of the appeal to me in this sport is that we have enough choices to make it interesting and normally whichever one I'm fishing at the time becomes my favorite....Was hard to put away the fall favorite and long leader with small tubes grease lining or skating bugs for summer runs and take up the skagit again for winter fish...but after a bit I got in the rhythm of that system and it's the ticket for now...

    It's all good...wasting time pissing in the wind of this argument is just a way to kill time for guys who don't fish much and got nothing better to do...IMHO!!!

    Thank god the weekend is upon us....I feel better already...and guybg I will share a sip or two with you..but can't promise I won't throw rocks at you if you hook something behind me....:)
     
  2. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    The long rod is about presentation, and casting. A shorter rod let's you put more leverage on the fish. Don't believe me ask the bluewater gear guys. 80/120 class tuna rods tend to be around 5'6" for a reason. So if anything you should change your argument to "it's harder on the fish because the fight lasts longer with a spey rod". Have you ever caught a 15lb fish on a spey rod? Not saying you don't qualify as a steelheader if you haven't. But it does mean you should experience it before you dismiss it as unsporting.

    To each his own. I think the whole theme of this thread is: I'll let you use your choice in gear anywhere you want. You let me use my mine.

    I'll just let the "on the other hand, a single handed you are in a fight of your life even if it a 5 pounder.." go... Oops... I guess I didn't... Can't help it... I landed a 7 pounder on a single hander last week and my life flashed before my eyes so I'm Carpein' the crap out of every Diem!
     
  3. guybg

    guybg New Member

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    lol..Fair enough!:thumb:
     
  4. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    you do realize not all spey rods are 15' 10 wts?
     
  5. ralfish

    ralfish Active Member

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    Golfy:

    Mid belly: 4-4.5 X rod length .

    12.5' rod with a delta plus tip , in the trees, or my back against a high bank, or on a classic open gravel bar, no pretending required....
     
  6. Wayne Kohan

    Wayne Kohan fish-ician

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    I started fishing with a spey rod a few years ago for the sole purpose of being able to cast farther to swing for steelhead. It is a struggle for me to single hand 40 feet of line, and I can comfortably fish 60 feet and uncomfortably shoot out evern farther. Distance is a benefit out here on the Columbia. And yes, I know, I do catch fish in closer to shore, but I also get many hookups in areas I could not reach with a single hander. And I know, I could have taken lessons to improve my casting, but I have to work for a living and do not get to fish as much as I would like. But the main utility of a spey rod to me is to be able to swing my fly at different depths by changing lines, tips, weight on the fly, etc. I fish Skagit 90% of the time because that I catch many more fish swinging deeper than I do near the surface, as much of my fishing is in the winter. This year I bought a full sinking head, and am learning to cast it. It is a struggle but is coming along and I've even hooked and landed a fish on that line. I would love to be able to fish a long belly line because I hate the stripping after every cast, but with the wind, the learning curve, the difficulty throwing tips, why bother? I am happy and catching fish regularly.

    And by the way, remember geometry and levers. The longer the lever, the more force that can be generated on the other end. The first time I hooked a steelhead on my 14 foot rod, I thought my arm was going to fall off.

    I have followed that thread on the speypages as well, and the original argument was that by "overselling" skagit lines the flyfishing industry is stunting our growth to becoming true spey jedi. Then it turned into a pissing match and seemed to get personal.

    Anyway, do what feels good and works for you to catch fish, because that is the purpose of going fishing, is it not?

    Wayne
     
  7. dreamonafly

    dreamonafly Member

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    Thats exactly what I meant.. I have couple friend fish with 15'-16' 9/10 wt rod, saw them hook into fish couple times, it was like surf fish... when they reel in fish with the rod point upward the fish was surfing on the surface... it was just comical... I am no expert when it comes to spey fishing. but seem enough guys caught fish with them, it is definitely a totally different experiences, its just not what i aspected.. that all
     
  8. Golfman, yes I have the Waller DVD along with the original VHS. I am not a purist when it comes to Steelheading, I know there are guys that are on this forum. I do what it takes to increase my chances of hooking into one. Yes this is a spey topic but my point was that who cares if the guy bashed Skagit vs. Scandi? You make it sound like the only way to steelhead is with a double hand rod and everyone who is a non double hander you throw a nose in the air to. I do what works, if that means swinging a double hander when the right conditions warrant to pinning a pink worm through a non- classic piece of water. Who the hell cares how you do it? Most important thing is to get out and enjoy yourself. I hate the while elitist crap about one method being more holy than another.
     
  9. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    The debate over what method is better than the other has been going on for a very long time. The debates are waging on in almost all human activity. I don't care if is about single vs. double handed or cheek vs. throat job. There will always be some form of disagreement amoung any group of people discussing any given subject. I like most of these debates because they expose me to a variety of views and opinions. I will also play the antogonist on purpose just to get a more lively and indepth discussion. The problem seems to be when this crap is taken seriously and some use emotion to form and post their opinions. One should never let what is posted on a fly fishing board get under their skin. Although I have been guilty of doing exactly that.
     
  10. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    Steve,

    You are one of the characters in my book, so I feel I have to respond to you. As we have discuss this before, delightful joke is "delightful". Provoking joke is "provoking" and "stink". "Lower hand play" I might add.

    Dana said: "a adult body with child mind". He is such a gentleman to say such gentle analogy. I will just said a scrap pecking vultures... try to find something sticky fishy and turn up the shit like vultures. And don't expect vultures bring something to the table! I have said this in the other forum once. People come to internet forum for different purpose, some come here to make friends, some come here to relax, some come here to learn, and of course some come here to teach and share experience. That's all fine! "what you bring to the table?" is I always ask myself. Good for the public? delightful joke? useful information? or just peaking other people to get a selfish satisfaction?!

    What is the results? when those selfish behavior expands?

    Mike Kinney rarely post here, Scott Howell, Ed Ward stop posting and decided move to another smaller site. WHAT A LOST!
    If you really want to show you guys are a better caster, why not post some videos? and show all the newbies how to do it, how well you make your way there? The people above I mentioned ALL are keen to educate people, patient, gentle, polite masters, and most importantly, all are BRAVE to show their casts and willing to take a hit... from those jokers...

    The reason I was involved in that thread is because I have been communicating with Ed Ward several times about his casting mechanics. At the moment when the thread was heating up, I still decided NOT to get involved. Well, after several beers, I ask myself a strange question, why Ed Ward is so stupid? He can just stop posting and doing his own cast ... why he took all the hits and still repeat his line again and again just try to teach those people and newbies how to cast? He can just sit back and let people WOW him... Silly! yeah, so stupid that I waded in and even make some movies to explain what is the casting mechanics...

    Ok, Vent is over! done is done!

    Mark
     
  11. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Yuhina & Philster,

    My remark was in reference to a topic from another forum being taken up on this forum. It wasn't my intent to come across as criticizing anyone in the industry or Pan for starting this thread. Apologies if I wasn't being clear. I know Mike and Ed personally and appreciate the heck out of their contributions in gear and technique. I think I understand why the thread was shut down on spey pages; the pissing match and going in circles pretty much ended all constructive discussion.

    Sg
     
  12. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    The silliest thing of all is that the gear and techniques are constantly evolving. The new (to me) tapered Skagit heads that throw those awesome V shaped loops. But can they deliver super nasty giant weighted flies and turn over t14 the way the old level skagits can? If not, are they Skagits? It'll all continue to evolve. Just like the XTs and Grandspeys essentially became super long heads, that you could basically shoot if you had the skill and the right matchup between rod and line. Yes they do have longbellies, but to a traditionalist, if you're shooting it, it ain't a longbelly!

    It's all silly. Dudes who live and breath this stuff cook up a line, and one of the companies buys into the concept, refines it for the mass market and releases it. Dudes come up with it so they can fish the way they want to. Companies market it to make money. who cares.
     
  13. Speyniac

    Speyniac New Member

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  14. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Well, because I was just fishing a skagit head this morning. 7 long strips, loop on little finger. 6 long strips, loop on the finger next to it. 5 long strips, loop on the next finger. 18 long strips between each cast... That's a lot of stripping! bawling:
     
  15. bconrad

    bconrad Member

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    Did you register just to post that? Old argument man, been hashed over a thousand times on this board and others.
     
  16. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Man either I said basically the same thing in my last post or you just like to ride your high horse around and bitch...but since you asked...Who cares? I do!!!

    Simple...

    Thought I'd take the high road on this one..but you seem destined to want to fight...so be it...

    READ I own single handers...though I mainly use only 000 or 2wts....but have 6wts for stillwater and 7wt for beach fishing....

    Why when anyone questions anything you say to jump right up on that "elitist" card or other?.... Easy out or what?

    I chose to fish with a fly because I got bored with bait and didn't feel the need to kill everything I touch anymore to prove my manhood or stoke my ego....(there's enough bloggers for that right?) The challenge of using a fly to fool a fish gave me the intellectual spark and some spiritual connection as well...it involved my mind and my soul...don't get that? too goddamn bad.....

    Using a spey rod means nothing other then the ability to control your line a helluva lot better then with a single hander in most situations...and I found it's uses and casts a helluva lot more practical for all my RIVER fishing needs...This includes dry lines, scandi's, skagits, nymphing for TROUT with real nymphs...not beads!!! etc.

    Hey why do I hate beads? Because they kill fish...look at all the facebook and internet hero's holding up their fish with blood running out the gills and a bead in front...Ask some of the old timers...(Have you ever tried that or is beneath you? ) about why they stopped using um.....A guy on here who posts very little but is involved in conservation on a many fronts could tell you stories about when he first started in fly fishing AND used a bead or egg imitation fly....Maybe you'd find it interesting if he explained how shitty he felt and how he quit fishing for the day and debated on leaving his whole trip behind after gilling a wild fish with one....If you want to fish um for hatchery fish that you plan on bonking...go right the fuck ahead....I don't care ....IF your using um and can catch and probably will catch a WILD fish then your the one who needs to look in the mirror....For that simple fact alone...That's why I care!!!

    Don't play pretend that it's any of us spey guys who are the holier then though group...Pick up an Orvis (no offense Leland) or the fly shop catalog and see who's willing to pay big jack to fish "private" water...Only for the Elite what an f'ing joke.......It's like little dick syndrome with you guys....when was your last "single hand clave"

    So there you have it....I'm tired of this b.s. reverse guilt trip oh don't pick on me because I like to catch fish crap...there is also the responsibility that goes along with that..and you seem to quite easily like to sweep that under the rug.....or try and feign off as others elitism...Bullshit dude!!!!

    Everyone starts somewhere...fine...I met guys on the weekend, good guys all...but new and after a steelhead no matter what....I'm not out there to judge..but sometimes it takes what happened to my friend and having to watch a wild fish die to wake up some people...but when you have had the experience but choose to ignore the consequences....like yourself....then what does that make you???

    And your calling ME elitist and holier then though!!!

    Child Please.....

    D
     
  17. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    Steve,

    I fully aware of that. Thanks for the clarify. Actually, my vent was not targeting Pan either. It is a generalized observation, use that thread and this thread as examples, related it to my own experience that how those posting behavior had impacted on the forums' quality. I apologized for using such strong words... it's a vent : ( ... so a bit out of control myself...

    Mark
     
  18. attack

    attack Member

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    Not that this isn't entertaining and all but if you guys would put half as much time into arguing over conservations topics as lines you might actually have some fish to fish for...
     
  19. Speyniac

    Speyniac New Member

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    Pardon me sir for jumping into a discussion topic I did not initiate. I just find it amusing when Mr golfman65 justifies fishing skagit lines because they are easiest, while snubbing his nose at mid and long bellies. Mid and long bellies with tips work well at delivering flies, even larger weighted flies with a correctly matched rod. They can also be fished close to the bank unlike the claims made by Mr golfman65. They do however require practice and discipline to fish effectively - hard to find traits in this world of instant gratification and lust for anything easy.

    cheers
     
  20. stewart dee

    stewart dee Guest

    >>>>>>>>> I love beads!
     

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