skagit vs. the world.

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Panhandle, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. Philster New Member

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    [IMG]
  2. KerryS Ignored Member

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    Gawt dammit Philster, welcome back. You were missed but didn't know how much until you started posting again.
  3. Philster New Member

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    You know me... I show up to take names and talk sh*t, and I'm all out of paper...:thumb: It's good to be back. Thanks.
  4. Speyniac New Member

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    knee deep
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    And apparantly out of any ideas for a thoughtful response other than a tagged photo of an old woman. Brilliant.
  5. golfman65 Guest

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    Amen to that....

    and here's something for the conservation side...

    Talked with the owner of business yesterday (on the skagit) about the closure...about how many fish are really in the river in March...about how this effects his business and others up there...about how some think it's more an easy out then a real conservative move....
    About how the poaching now begins in ernest...with no eye's on the water...it's a free for all...
    How he had a guy come in this week and show him pic's of a wild 20lb steelhead he killed from the sauk...after it closed....
    I'll give him props, he takes plate numbers, boat numbers, pictures etc. and turns them into fish and game...nothing gets done though he said with remorse....I give the guy credit though, he's a recognized business up there and is taking a stand when many won't because of the old excuses....
    Come back from hearing that...try to swing a fly and get the odd bull...look down river or at other states and countries I guess...

    Maybe that's why all this talk? soon we will only have open water to practice our styles on and the prettiest caster will win....won't matter who the fisherman are anymore or who can read water etc.
    Ahhhh I smell a conspiracy coming from over at that other site....goddamn it....the long liners are going to win....with beads on the end no less.....

    weeping...weeping badly...
  6. Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

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    do'n it 4 the chinookie
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    Don't worry Golfman, you get my way I'll learn ya to cast beads on a long bellie !!!:thumb::rofl:
  7. Philster New Member

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    Did I stutter? I said
    [IMG]
    And yes compared to trying to stir the old pot, which is an argument most folks were smart enough to be done with before anybody had heard the words "scandinavian heads" with "My lines take skill, yours for weenies, Nanny Nanny Boo Boo", what I posted is the equivalent of "A brief history of time"

    And joining a site to do it... Sweet Jeebus! Haven't you heard of masturbation? At least with that one person wins...
  8. fisshman26 Member

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    Trail, B.C., Canada.
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    I dont care either way which way you fish but ........the skagit guys who outnumber the long belly guys big time always say they are persecuted by the long belly guys well thats just funny!!!
    Guys please keep fishing the skagits!!!!
  9. Speyniac New Member

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    knee deep
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    Well sir, your point is impotent as these arguments were not around before we heard of scandanavian heads. As far as masturbation goes, I will leave you to your own device.

    cheers
  10. Philster New Member

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

    Yup sonny. We used to call it "european" style casting... Ask anyones who's been doing this for longer than you. There should be a ton of candidates...

    http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/showthread.php?t=4913&highlight=long+belly+short
  11. Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

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    Found this in that old thread:
    Date: 5/16/2001 4:34 PM
    "The fisherman is the key factor in putting fish on the beach. Flies, lines,or rods make very little difference."

    One guy nailed it in one sentance , yet the debate still rages 10 years later ...
    fish a longbellie running line , hooked to a scandi head, with a 3' chunk of a 750 skag as an indicator, swing a bead/spey fly double rig , both with a long floating leader and a small 6" pc of t-14 at the butt, and no one will get pissed! Then eveyone will get along , ya that's it , that's the ticket:ray1:
  12. Philster New Member

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    That's why I posted that thread. Notice everyone got along? Notice it's 5 responses long? I got tired of this argument in 2002.
  13. KerryS Ignored Member

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    Very interesting. This has nothing to do with the stupid ass argument now waging about who casts what. I talked with two different business owners the last weekend of the season. One a restaurant and the other a convenience store. The restaurant had no idea the river was closing and really had no idea how it affected their business. They recently acquired it. I told them that during this time of year 5 or 10 years ago the restaurant would be full of fishermen eating breakfast before heading up for steelhead. "Oh really!" was their reply. The convenience store owner somewhat knew he would lose some business but had no understanding of what was going on with steelhead. Instead he was taking the old school mentality of blaming everything on the Indians and the lack of hatchery fish.

    And so goes the plight of our fish. Even those whose businesses are directly affected by the closures are ignorant.
  14. Panhandle Active Member

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    Excuse me, but I don't recall a thread in the past were the intent was to compare the utilitarian aspcts of skagit, scandi, longbelly, etc.. Yes, other threads tangent into this subject. I believe this topic is very productive if the contributor could leave the ego behind. This summer I was fishing with a well known European Scandi guy. As a friendly jabbing, he likes to give me shit for exclusivley skagiting, and more or less looks at skagiting as a fishing with training wheels. On the river, I brought up the limitations of mid to long belly non skagit lines in close quarters and using sink tips. A very good constructive argument evolved. IMO, scandis and long belly lines have their application in summer run fishing..... small profile flies and little stripping (what a joy of course). Fishing these lines is what I look forward to come late summer because of how fun and effortless it is. However, in cold water conditions where tips and larger profile flies are more effective, scandis and long bellies become less practicle. Here's the thing, you can skagit in all conditions by simply changing tips and lengths. In other words, IMO, it is the most holisitc technique to master because it goes everywhere you do. You can't say that about other lines and heads. In conclusion, it doesn't matter how easy the line is to cast if you can't fish.
  15. fisshman26 Member

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    The real question is are you sure that you cannot fish long bellys in the winter with tips and big heavy flies and are you sure you cant fish them with little backcast room?
  16. Panhandle Active Member

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    I'm sure I can't as easily.
  17. Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

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  18. Philster New Member

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    My first spey line was one I made after a long phone call with Mike Maxwell. It was a double taper 9 wt, with much of the taper removed, and looped 7 wt tips in floating, type 3 and leadcore, that I threw off the original sage 91404. So yeah, I'm pretty sure that there is a definite limit to what you can do with a long belly in tight confines... When you are essentially roll casting, with your anchor point 15 feet in front of you with a tip and big fly because you can't throw any line behind you, it doesn't work. Heck of a lot of fun with floaters, and I used to actually argue with guys that you couldn't effectively fish out at 100 feet, so my 60 to 70 casts were all anybody could ever need. I had to apologize many years later when Rio came out with later generation windcutters. I had no idea how far out I was fishing when the lines were one color, but the color change made me realize I was fishing WAY farther out than I thought I was.

    But yeah. I've earned the right to say that I am sure you cannot fish long bellys with tips and big heavy flies with little backcast room. I still own and periodically throw grandspeys and XLT dry lines, so I'm not militant to either style, but I have no interest in any line longer than a midspey for tips and big flies, and even those only on rods 13'6" or longer.
  19. fisshman26 Member

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    OK let me rephrase that question.......just because You cannot do it, does it mean that it is not possible, and this is not a slight regarding your casting skills just a simple question.
  20. Philster New Member

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    I would like to meet the person, who in the scenario I described can. I have yet to. And I've met some amazing casters, including big name folks. With no loop behind you, and your anchor way out in front, can you lift 40 feet of line, a tip, and a big nasty fly? I'm not asking a rhetorical question, I'm asking a direct question. Can you? Do you know anybody who can? How many tries? How much control will they have? Will the line, tip, and fly lay out in anything approaching straight line, or by the time things straighten enough for a nice swing, is the swing basically over?

    It's just not a good tool for that. For reasonable flies, dry line, It's a very fun tool. Most of us don't fish bamboo anymore for a reason. There are better options for most situations. There are about 3.5 months of the year where I fish, that I would be perfectly happy just fishing longs. The rest of the time it's a knife at a gun fight. But at a knife fight, or buffet, they're a lot of fun.