skagit vs. the world.

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Panhandle, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. Big Tuna

    Big Tuna Member

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    Kind of like this thread. Good thing we WFFers are superior to those guys when it comes to having pages of stupid arguments.
     
  2. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    OK, I like this thread has turned into a constructive direction. Good Job! Philster ...and Bruce.
    I am actually getting interested in long line casting and ready for ordering some lines and doing more studies!

    Here is the request for Bruce and other long line casters. If you can post a castiing video here and fit the casting scenario that Philster just described. You take this Bo Mohlin reel home. It's not the most valuable reel in the world, but it is a hand-made beauty (piece by piece from Bo Mohlin)and function as good as it gets IMHO. LINK
    [​IMG]
    Noted: This is NOT a pissing match, not fishy or trash talking, this is a serious request from a casting mechanic enthusiast. I think it is reasonable price to pay to see this cast.

    The only condition I might note here is that long line is really a relative term from line/rod ratio. So let's put it in a more realistic fishing condition for this request. 16 feet rod (or under) on 70' line sounds ok?
    Another thing, it should not be in a form that resembling traditional roll cast (jump roll would be fine)

    Mark
     
  3. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Tuna, do you think this is a stupid argument? The last couple pages ate actually more constructive than 95% of the aimless BS I read on here. Perhaps you can quit wasting our time and enlighten us with some brilliant topic.

    Bruce, Phil pretty much nailed it. You can shoot skeet with a BB gun, but it would be pretty damn hard, especially when you have a 12 gauge at your side as well.

    Thanks, yuhina lol!
     
  4. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Talk to me before you do. I have a couple big ones lying around in the box from whey I had my D. Brown winston, and my Boom Stick: A 15 foot 10 weight Daiwa Alltmor! Talk about a freakin' BEAST! I also have a used 6/7 or 7/8 I don't remember which, XLT from my old 15'2" solstice. Like I said. I'm speaking from personal experience. I'm ready to change my mind, but words aren't going to do it.
     
  5. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Philster, what line do you have for the Alltmor? I have a Lochmor Z 15'3" 9/10 I need a line for. I think the last time I had something working on it the line may have been a 9/10/11 Windcutter but that was many moons ago and I can't remember now. Talk about beasts.
     
  6. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Damn I sure wish I could win that Mohlin it's a sweet reel Yuhina....and I echo what philster is saying...Can think of a run on the skagit...more then one really where you step out of the tree's and right into the water...high water like recently your waist deep and only 5' out if that...It takes some Mortensen type casting to get it out..and that's the only way I could see this happening....i.e. turn your body to face the bank...and on right left pick it up and single spey it out on a 45* or so angle....it works with a scandi at roughly 50' with leader ... but when I've tried it with a skagit and a heavy fly you need to snap it and it's do-able but not pretty...

    I don't know if you could do this with a long line...but most mid speys are 65' with floating tip...if you take that tip off and add 8 or 10' of sinktip your right around 50' correct???

    Think you should classify the size and weight of fly and tip you want to see used yuhina...cause thinking about the above, I think Bruce could do it !!!
     
  7. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Lochmor Z and alltmor were completely different. Your's had redesigned ferrules and blanks, as the Alltmors did get a reputation for exploding, but nobody knew enough to know what generations were the ones to avoid. I loved that rod, but I needed my biggest bluewater reel, with not much backing for the lines. It ended up going to Jack Cook. I used 10/11 XLT and a 9/10 grandspey on it. Compeletely different lines. The Grandspey was like casting a giant windcutter (not a midspey), and the XLT was more like a Wulff Triangle Taper if you remember those. One little hitch at the end of the forward stroke would translate into a quite an aerial mend on that XLT :rofl: Give Aaron Reimer a call. He's an encyclopedia.
     
  8. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Well, we aren't talking midspeys. :clown:
     
  9. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

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    In a word Philster I can, and I do know a few people that could. If you know Aaron then you probably know at least one of them as well. Lines and rods have come a long way from the old grandspeys and xlts, you would not believe that on the new generation Carron 65 you can put a tip right on the front without cutting or how far a Carron 95 can go in a real time fishing situation as well as casting in a situation with `little` backcast room but it sounds like you dont believe already ;-)
    Whats wrong with making things hard anyways.....I like it!
     
  10. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Nothing wrong with that at all. If that's what you enjoy and feel challenged by, then awesome.
     
  11. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    would be nice to actually see a carron line...those things are harder to get down here then the damn steelhead..lol..
    and yes I believe Aaron might be the only guy who stills has a few but when I talked to him recently I believe he said he's not carrying them anymore...

    Still talk is talk...unless your going Mortensen on us...I want to see that cast made as well....

    Arggghhhh....I guess what's the point though?....guys are gonna fish what they want and the argument is half the fun...but would still bet dollar to donuts 99% with those long liners would be walking by water the skagit guys fish...

    Just MHO though...
     
  12. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    I fished the earlier Carrons. We are probably working off different definitions of "anchor way out in front", little backcast etc. But as you can tell, I'm not out to fight over which one is best. In fact I mentioned my recent outings with true skagit lines. 18 full arm long strips (and I'm 6'3") between casts, and I haven't even got my stroke back. In freezing conditions, managing that running line when I won't be as articulate managing sections with my frozen pinky and ring finger is an issue. It's probably why Ed Ward, last time I saw him, and it has been years, uses mono. it sinks, and leaves the water with little resistance. No system is perfect.

    What's wrong with making things harder? Well if I was Lee Wulff, flying into Labrador in the 60's I'd be using a 6'6" rod and full floaters year round too. But fish are few and far between, and I don't get out that much anymore. I want every advantage. I'm fully aware of what Aaron can do. The thing is we're quickly approaching the circus trick level of casting in these discussions. I'm not talking about someone pulling something off in front of crowd and getting applause. I'm talking about fishing all day. I just want to fish. But rest assured, even with an improved Carron, and the old one didn't require cutting either, we're not talking about the same circumstance.
     
  13. inland

    inland Active Member

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    And the ass measuring and cock sniffing continues...

    I bet you can't do this....

    I bet you can't do that....

    I bet...

    I bet...

    Who freaking cares? Believe. Don't believe. Write your name in pee on the wall.

    If you only fish a skagit good on ya. Stop justifying why. There isn't anything to justify. There are advantages and disadvantages to all of it. None of it is the be-all-end-all.

    William
     
  14. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    You look at a civil discussion, between two people being polite and this is your response? I would suggest that your need to feel superior and be above it all is clouding your perspective. I think fisshman and I are having a good time discussing lines. I am curious to see how the carrons have evolved. When the only options were rio and SA, the "softness" of the carron was breath of fresh air. I will give one a toss.

    Your little screed is about 2 pages too late. But I bet it felt great! :rofl:
     
  15. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    Thanks Philster!

    It's time to dust off my Scott G 16' 10 weight!! :thumb:

    Mark
     
  16. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    There is a time and place for everything. Like today, I found myself scrambling back to the truck to get my Skagit set up because I was getting blown off the river trying to cast a 38' 3d power taper. Yeah sure some will say "I can cast all day in the wind with that set up...", but I wasn't about too. After getting to my truck, I forgot I had cleaned out my rear seat and put my other rod in the garage...so I was back on the water fighting the wind...it wasn't pretty or enjoyable but I made a morning out of it.

    Sure would have been nice to have had the right tool today....and by the way I'm a fly fisherman so the right tool for me is never a level wind, spin reel or center pin, when angling for steelhead.

    Though I doubt I'd really use it much, I'd really like to learn to cast a long belly. So here is a question: "Can someone prescribe me a long belly for either a Le Cie 12'6" 8/9 or Sage 7136 z?" if it's something really hard to find...where can I get it? Or are my rod's not really conducive to the long belly?

    James.
     
  17. inland

    inland Active Member

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    Phil,

    Not sure how you came to the superiority conclusion. But whatever have fun with your re-initiation to fishing and casting.

    William
     
  18. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    All personal opinion here, but I draw the line at 13'6" for midbelly lines, let alone longbelly. I wouldn't want to throw anything longer than 50 on the le cie. On the 13'6" you can throw a longbelly, but not necessarily the whole head depending on the line. Have you tried a midspey for the 7136? out to around 80 (counting 15 foot leader) you aren't throwing any running line, but if you need more distance you can shoot for it. I did throw a light XLT on my original 7136 brownie (not even the tiger eye model!). It worked fine. There was definitely a wall however. Your rod will hit that wall quite a bit later than mine did. Check around for recommendations, and if you want to save some money, I have an old (single color) midspey with tips, new in the box I'd let go for cheap.
     
  19. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Well, have you ever heard somebody say "And the ass measuring and cock sniffing continues..." without them implying that they are above it? And yeah... the last 18 months (2.5 years for steelhead) really made me forget everything I learned over the previous 35... It'll be tough to re-initiate myself...
     
  20. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    I've played a windcutter on the 7136 with put me out about 60' feet with leader. I liked how it cast but rarely used it and never truly got proficient with it. My biggest complaint with the windcutter was with large flys and sunk deep it was very hard for me to cast, but with traditional flys and the intermediate tip it was a real joy to cast.
     

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