skagit vs. the world.

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Panhandle, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

    I was not targeting you Kerry with my post but it did seem a little appropriate, cmon you gotta see the humour in that. I agree use what floats your boat and dont get down on others line systems, and please dont say this line or that cant do this or that it really all boils down to the caster and the skills you develop.
     
  2. Philster

    Philster Active Member

    The dude owns a Daiwa for goodness sakes! He probably wasn't thinking about the best skagit for it when he picked it up!:thumb:
     
  3. inland

    inland Active Member

    Mumbles you would earn some street cred on your points if you have actually used the set up the guy is talking about with proficiency. Opinion vs informed opinion. Considering we don't know anything about the guys rod, line, tips, and flies it is all supposition.

    William
     
  4. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

    Mark that is the Carron Proline that Andrew is using. The head is about 65ft but you can hang it outside the rod tip around 67-70ft.
     
  5. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    I bought the "Z" sight unseen because it was made in Scotland. A romance thing I think. When I got the damn thing I was wondering what the hell I would use freaking 15+ foot rod for? When I finally put a line on it that deserved to be on it, the rod came to life. That Lockmor was a galdamn cannon. Who knew? I need to get it back on the water someplace but first I need to aquire another line for it.
     
  6. bconrad

    bconrad Member

    If you want a 9/10/11 Windcutter I have one laying around somewhere...been used a couple years but when I put it away it was still in good shape. It's just the belly and the tip 2, all the tips that came with it are long gone. If you want it PM me and I'll send it to you.
     
  7. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

    Thanks! Bruce
    I noticed the overhang in the video, looks like a interesting line.

    Mark
     
  8. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

    My question, and understand clearly that it was a question from the untalented and uninformed, was to Speyniac. He indicated that he could pull his long line in and shorten it in tight quarters. I can do the same with my Airflo Delta (standard, not long). In doing so I think that the mass carrying capability of the line is reduced because less of the line is forming the driving D loop of the cast.

    If you misinterpreted my question as me stating some knowledge like I know what I'm talking about, I fear you are mistaken. Merely a question about what I've been taught and learned in limited two handed use of the crazy physics dynamics of spey casting.

    I guess since we are establishing, or not, street cred, what is the answer? If I have the talent to cast a mid weight tip and fly on an 80' belly line and I get in tight quarters, can I still deliver that payload if I pull in 40' of the line system? Will I still be able to deliver it at length, or must I focus only on the near seam? I'm asking because I know that I don't know shit about that situation.

    I just know a little bit about how to get my skagit system into fishable places. In my hands, those are not that far downrange, I have clear limits. Those are not precision and delicate presentations, I'm a hack. And while we are at it, what is street cred? I'm not hip either. What I am is fascinated about casting lines and as I slowly build skill in one area I hope to expand into others.

    Thanks Inland.
     
  9. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

    Like I have said before if you are a good enough caster (practice makes you crazy but helps) you can cast with less length and thus less mass and tips make this even easier to do.
     
  10. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Nearly 10 pages...no ones won the Mohlin...

    Philster strips out 18 strips on his skagit...22 is even more of a bitch...happens all day and that is the learning curve for using shooting heads...line management.....think of how far you could cast just the head with a high stop? SO how isn't this a skill that equals that of learning to rotate and wait for you D loop to form correctly before the forward stroke with a long bellied line?

    p.s. only floating mono works well, sinking sticks and I believe Ed says he never casts over 10 strips.

    Bruce, you referenced throwing a small fly with a floater on a skagit...joke taken by most...and exactly why most wouldn't....Tell me what is the most poplular line though up on the skeena drainages (seeing as you live in trail) I would almost say skagits but I saw a lot of delta's and would bet with lower water then last oct. would have seen lots more dry lines for skating bugs...

    Point is...all these arguments seem to revolve around skagits being easy and that is somehow a bad thing..and no skill is involved with using one......I contend that there is as much skill involved in being able to fish a skagit and cast it out past 20 real people arm length strips...(3' +) as there is in being a competent long line user....

    So the only frustrating thing is why everyone keeps prattling on and can't accept that there are no rules saying you can't learn to use all of them....

    Sorry I'm a gear whore...just gives me more excuses to own different rods, lines and reels...and something to do when the fish aren't biting or have finally gagged their last... - - - -
     
  11. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

    Golfman try 20 plus pulls while useing a lines that totals 117-120ft from holding point to fly and then tell me which takes more skill. But you are on the right track, what the hell does a line system have to do with skill???????? I never said anyone should use one or the other, is a skagit easier for a new angler to throw fishable distances than a long belly would be.....sure it is, that is one of the reasons the whole skagit thing happend, easy for guides to get clients making fishable casts.

    Trail by the way is on the Washington BC border on the Columbia river. My home water used to be the Thompson river but now frequent the Snake, Clearwater drainages for steel, only 4 1/2 hrs and I am putting on my waders, although the Columbia where I live has big rainbows with the largest recorded caught by rod and reel being 24lbs + and is free flowing unlike what the Columbia is down south.
     
  12. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

    Oh yeah almost forgot..... why in the hell would I want a mohlin??????:rofl:
     
  13. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

    .........
     
  14. Philster

    Philster Active Member

    I grew up with sinking. It works. Tradeoffs of course with either. I would rather have a pile at my feet submerged, than a bunch being pulled downstream by the current. But that's because I grew up with it that way in both still and moving water. And I don't doubt Ed fishes tips 10 or less strips 90 percent of the time, but NOBODY ever does anything ALWAYS or NEVER! :ray1:
     
  15. _WW_

    _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

    I always agree with that statement!
     
  16. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

    20 strips? I never cast more than 8 strips with my Skagit as best I recall. Excessive stripping is hard on my left shoulder. If I'm fishing the CW or were to fish the Thompson again, I use a different line. Seems like the steelhead Spey revolution began as a way to effectively fish more water, but quickly turned into a scheme to keep the fly fishing industry from going stale. As a practical matter, how many additional steelhead have been caught because of Spey? I've been catching less.

    Sg
     
  17. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest



    got ya...was looking at your place and thought trail bc and I screwed that up with terrace bc ...and your right that is a whole nother ball game..I think why so many of these lines have gone to heads only so you can add a running line and literally really bomb them..i.e. your carrons....

    Philster, I used sinking for a long time too but have switched to either varvis or lately kind of old school rio powercoil which at .030 is slick but floats decent and shoots well.....thought I would give up some distance with the Rio but not that much of a difference and easy to hold in cold weather...

    I'd would take that Mohlin...would like nice next to my sara...damn ho that I am...
     
  18. Philster

    Philster Active Member

    I'm going to test some stuff speybum recommended this offseason for my 11.5 and 10.5 which throw the same short head weights. It floats. Not sure about it yet as it's pretty fine diameter.
     
  19. inland

    inland Active Member

    Mumbles I don't know the answer as I don't know what the guy is using. What kind of rod. How it flexes. Rod length. What line. What tips. What flies. Even if we do know we still can't answer your questions of 'effectiveness' as it is the individual and their choices to determine what they want to do. Meaning that you or I may struggle like crazy with their outfit but they make it look like magic.

    William
     
  20. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

    I can live with that. I'm pretty sure that a long belly pulled way in for tight quarters would cause me lots of frustration. I tried it with my airflo delta and anything that brought the sweet spot into the guides any distance was really just impossible for me. I guess at my skill level I need a lot of things to go right and have a lot to learn about adapting to the variables that I find on the river.

    And I've seen "that guy". The one that can take something that I would never be able to cast and bomb it time and time again, unfurling those tight loops in the most impossible of locations...cast after cast after cast. I'd like to be that guy when I grow up.
     

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