Skykomish Prawn

Discussion in 'Fly Tying' started by speyman, May 11, 2003.

  1. speyman Member

    Posts: 119
    Carnation, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +3 / 0
    Here is a prawn with all the lifelike qualitites of the Waddington prawn series but at 3" and on a size 3 hook it is much easier to cast.

    Hook: Alec Jackson Spey, Heavy Wire #3
    Head: Red
    Hackle: Steelhead Anglers Spey hackle, Orange
    Thread: Pearsall's Gossamer #11a, Scarlet
    Tail: Orange Rhe over Orange Yak Hair over Pearl Flashabou
    Body: Three layers of Flexicord Light, 1/4" cover with Orange Estaz

    In the tail put 3-5 strands of flashabou on each side of the back of the hook. Put a bump of Estaz there also. Attach 3 strands of RHea over 5 hairs of Orange Yak on each of three sides of the hook. The bump of Estaz will make it stand out to the side. For the body tie in the flexicord with the tag end going back from the middle of the hook. Bind it down and then pull forward and bind down again. Pull back and bind down again. This creates the necessary bump on top of the hook. Tie in the eyes(beads on mono) on each side then tie in Estaz on the top and the spey hackle. Wind the first 2 wraps of Estaz under the eyes then finish. Hackle it and then pull the cord forward and tie it off. Then tie on more Estaz and finish the front half in 3-4 wraps. Thats it. It sounds harder than it is. Email for more help at babar@speyman.com




    Speyman
  2. Whitey Active Member

    Posts: 991
    Far side of the moon
    Ratings: +185 / 0
    Speyman, that fly looks great. Are these available through your shop? I'd like a few, and have none of the supplies to whip them out, so if possible, can I just pay you for a few?? YT:dunno
  3. speyman Member

    Posts: 119
    Carnation, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +3 / 0
    You can, email me ofline at babar@speyman.com and let me know how many and what color and I will invoice you or order them at the site www.steelheadanglers.com.

    They come in:

    Black-Green
    Black-Blue
    Orange
    Purple
    Coral
    Orange
    Pink

    Cheers!
  4. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,722
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +660 / 5
    Come on speyman

    You're trying to tell me everyone doesn't have a 16-18' 10/11wt spey rod hanging around to toss those big waddingtons??? Come on. ;) ;) Yeah, I tried tossing one on my 14' 9wt spey and was like "Ugh" with that even. A one hander, NO WAY!!!

    Great fly. I tie up something sort of similar, but not quite. Mines a bit more of a revised GP. Saw them over in the UK back in late 80's. The ghillie had this fly that looked like a GP, but didn't have the GP strand eyes coming off, and a bit smaller hook (not the standard salmon hook). Has been a great producer, though I am back using standard fly hooks for the pattern.
  5. speyman Member

    Posts: 119
    Carnation, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +3 / 0
    Come on speyman

    I have tossed the 45's with an 8150 and an 8/9 Mastery Spey with 12' of T-14 but it was not enjoyable. What I have found is that using a 9/10 with a shorter line like a Midspey 9/10 you can toss them around pretty well. It sure makes you a better caster as you have to adjust the size and shape of the loop on every cast, no tight loops.

    When I switch back to a dry line I look pretty good after.

    Speyman
  6. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,722
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +660 / 5
    yup

    I had cast mine on a 9140 with a WC 9/10/11 and with a DT9f spey line. Both cast, but you're right on loops. Very sloppy. I've actually done some different alterations to make something similar to a waddington, shaving weight. I actually make spinners as well as flies. I actually tie up a spinner shaft onto the hook I'm using. Takes a bit to sync up vise to tie on. But works pretty good. Easier to cast as well.
  7. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,722
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +660 / 5
    Here's the setup I was talking about

    I didn't tie one up, wasn't sure if anyone wanted to see a before/after. But nice thing about this is you can adjust the bend of the shaft to whatever you want (nymph, shrimp, etc). Plus, can be rebent if straightened to sweat. Is very strong as well. Plus, you can just leave it straight. There are a few different ways you can leave the front. I have it twisted where you'd attach leader. You can either do this, or can make a bend only and long shaft, similar to a waddington or a standard salmon fly hook. Simply wrap it with thread and you'll be set without the twisted wire end. You can make it much longer. This was a quick setup done just for an example.

    http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/dc/user_files/509.jpg
  8. Old Man Just an Old Man

    Posts: 21,636
    Dillon, Mt
    Ratings: +1,664 / 0
    Here's the setup I was talking about

    I used to know it all---but now I forgot it all.

    Just a thought,but wouldn't it be better if you used...say S/S wire. It would be lighter but thinner. When I used to work for a living at the lazy "B" we had wire that we used for fail safe on nuts and bolts. It was stainless and it came in sizes of .0032 and .0020. But I don't know if you can get it out in the real world.

    Jim
  9. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,722
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +660 / 5
    Here's the setup I was talking about

    Well, only thing about SS is it's hard to work in the vises (spinner that is), they have a tendency to be too strong. They will snap when you have to set the pattern. So I use the standard spinner making wire. Is a bit softer, and easier to work with. I've tried using the wire you're talking about though. But I was using a bigger diameter almost equal to what I was using. Plus, this stuff is easier to work to creat the pattern you want. Plus, the bigger diameter helps for you to tie a decent big pattern without having to really load up the bare wire to build the body up. Actually, it's lighter then using the waddington shanks. They are thicker and a bit heavier. It's pretty much a replication for that, and cheaper.

    LOL, yeah, it's hard to find in the real world. I have a step brother who works with it, and get alot of that stuff from him. I use it for stainless leaders, and with them you do more crimping then hard bending. Always on the initial bend and twist that I'd get the "snap".

    I'm about to send off your care package. I'll make a few of these later on and send you some of those as well.
  10. Fliegenfischer .

    Posts: 15
    Vancouver, WA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Here's the setup I was talking about

    Even though I know you weren't really interested, Steel, I thought that Jim's suggestion might have other potential applications to tying, so I thought I'd provide info, on the off chance anyone else might have interest.

    The stuff you were thinking of is aviation safety wire. The .020 dia is very flexible, yet has incredible tensile strength. If you have a pair of safety wire pliers, it is easy to work with and makes very tight uniform twists. The smallest size pliers can do pretty fine work. Also, given that you wouldn't be using them daily, go with the cheapo pliers. (In this case, an exception to my always buy the best tool money can buy rule.)

    Prices range $9-15 for a 1 lb. can of wire (a near lifetime supply for a non-mechanic), and $20-35 for pliers. Below are a couple of links to sources. You can also get them locally at most aviation supply places.

    http://www.lockhartphillipsusa.com/pages/search.asp (run search for "wire")

    http://gallery.bcentral.com/Gallery/ProductDetails.aspx?GID=4351283&PID=1801218&page=1&sortOrder=0 ($20 pliers)

    They also have about a zillion uses around the garage/house/boat. Around the racing pits, the old saying has been updated to, "If you can't fix it with duct tape and safety wire, it's broke."

    I hope this is useful. If too off topic, sorry. :dunno
  11. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,722
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +660 / 5
    Actually, I'm always interested in new ideas

    I just had covered it before. But I wasn't using aircraft grade though before. I'm not sure why the fishing tackle companies don't use it though. I'm using same shaft material that the spinner companies are. Just the SS wire I had used before was brittle on the tight loops my spinner vise makes. I'd be very interested to try it out if it works that well. But also, you have to think body as well though. You'll be tying bodies on this, and want as thick of body as possible. I'm using .035 right now, and holds the body ok. But still not big enough it seems. But does well on leech patterns where body pretty much makes itself, so the aircraft SS wire would work. Didn't know there was a difference. Only had the SS you get for making SS wire leaders for the salt.

    Thanks, I may try buying some to try it out. I don't need the pliers, my vise wraps up a perfect head really quick. It's an ancient old Herters, but has done the trick for me since day one. I was introduced on this hefty vise, and still use it. Plus, when I do some production spinners, it still works flawlessly and quickly.

    I do appreciate the info. I'm not an expert on SS wire. I'll have to try some out and let you know how it goes.
  12. wet line New Member

    Posts: 2,313
    Burien, WA, King.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Here's the setup I was talking about

    Could this set up be used to do what I asked about 2 flies on one hook?
    What if a short piece of wire was tied to the hook, to form a hinge and then a second piece added to tie an emerger? Or would this become too much and present a real problem casting? It would definately create a different action while stripping. You seem to have a good mind for this sart of thing. Besides if I can get someone else to the ground work it is easier for me LOL. If this is really a hot idea and it gets pattened we can discuss royalties and such then, LOL. Where can I get the wire?, some place like Kaufmans?

    I have tied some English syle atlantic flies on # 8 long shanks, specifically the green highlander and the thunder and lightning. These were copied from flies purchased at Farlow's of Pall Mall in merry old London. They work quite well for cutts and summer runs when they seem to get pickey in low clear water conditions.
  13. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,722
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +660 / 5
    Hey Wetline????

    Where do you live at? Figured the best way to work this out would be in person. Can sit at my bench and try building up a few and see how they work. I'm hobbled up, so no fishing for me for awhile. :bawling Pretty much in cabin fever mode now. But I can have you first hand and do the work for you. I'm great with making ideas work. I'm really going to try the SS wire above. Never knew there were different grades. Stuff I used was brittle. Being lighter would help your case too using the SS wire. I'm game, never hate extra money. LOL.

    Email me if you're interested. You just need to show up with materials/hooks you want to use (you can use my stuff, but I only have salmon/steelhead hooks, nothing smaller then a size 8 7999) But can use my materials too if you'd like. Have plenty. But, bring a variety and we'll see what we can do.
  14. Old Man Just an Old Man

    Posts: 21,636
    Dillon, Mt
    Ratings: +1,664 / 0
    Here's the setup I was talking about

    I used to know it all---but now I forgot it all.

    Not at all. Any advice is always welcome as long as it helps us do what we all seem to like best. And fly fishing and tying seem to be it. When I was in a pinch some times small vice grips always seemed to work on the wire..

    Jim:thumb
  15. speyman Member

    Posts: 119
    Carnation, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +3 / 0
    Waddington Shank vs Haywire Twist?

    I have used the Haywire method to build a variety of stuff for toothy saltwater species for years and it it easy and it works great. I will also admit that I prefer to fish rather than to tinker with gear so forgive me in advance. I also also admit that I went through a phase where I built my own Salmon hooks to get what I wanted so I understand tinkering when it is needed to manufacture an unavailable part.

    I am curious about why there is so much interest in building your own base for a fly when a perfectly good Waddington shank can be had for a little more than 30 cents. The shanks come in size from 15mm to 55mm so you can build any size fly you need. The shanks are soft enough to bend to any shape you need for any type of fly body. And most important the way a double shank is made you have a much wider base to build your fly which allows you to create VERY lifelike bodies the same way we do on doubles.

    So if you please, why build your own?

    Speyman
  16. worldanglr Member

    Posts: 787
    Duvall, Washington, USA.
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    Waddington Shank vs Haywire Twist?

    I tie all my double bunnies and articulated leeches on Waddington Shanks, thanks to Aaron. I stopped in and picked up a pack of the smaller ones for a very reasonable price, and have found them excellent. I've been using a number 4 Gamakatsu Octopus hook as the trailer, and it's seems to be an excellent set up. The Waddington shanks are very easy to work with, and provide an excellent base to work off of for all your fly patterns from saltwater flies to musky flies to flies for big brown trout.

    worldanglr
    http://www.worldanglr.com/

    Calling Fly Fishing a hobby is like calling Brain Surgery a job.
    -Paul Schullery
  17. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,722
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +660 / 5
    Speyman

    It's easy. I don't tinker. Been building spinners for over 20 years (learned watching my Dad). Have all the materials to build anything I want. Have built some wild fly/spinners for my conventional fishing in fact. But, for awhile there you couldn't find waddington shanks (in fact I hadn't heard of them until quite a few years back) so improvised when I had an idea. I can build them for almost .01 each with my spinner wire. Plus, I have tons of it onhand. Why I use the wire shafts. Plus, the few I had were pretty heavy, and I wanted a lighter shaft that wasn't loose like dacron thread would be. I noticed that some of the older waddingtons that I saw in the UK would get progressively heavier as the body got longer. May be different now, only saw a small selection. But improvised (like stealing from my mom's craft boxes and my Dad's furs/feathers for fly tying lol). Quick and easy and I can adjust to anysize I want. Plus, the holding power is incredible for such small diameter. Plus, doesn't take much to build up a body, depending on your method. You can dub up a pretty decent sized body, you can also add a tube inbetween if you wanted say you want that size but not a line down the tube. Now, I've conquered alot on my own building/tying things. Just need to perfect that spey wing and I'll be about set. LOL Think I have that down though, was not doing enough turns of thread, and was waxed so grabbing. May be ok now. Thanks God. Was almost ready to pull out what hair I had left. LOL

    For some, it's not tinkering. It's getting by with what you have handy. If you can get similar profile and paying a lot less, you could see why. I know some prefer to do as much in home as possible. I never had need to build my own hooks though. Heard of a few doing that, I find most I really need for sale cheap enough through my wholesaler's license. I don't go that far. LOL

    But, it comes down to creative intellect. Some want to build something all on their own. Take what they have and go from there. I'm sure the waddingtons came about same way. Heck, almost anyhook/product out there came from necessity and invention. Just some feel a greater good from what they create themselves. Now, I love to build a fishing rod, but I won't go as far as to hand mandrel the blank and hand make each eye. I only go as far as gluing corks and hand forming the shape of handle. Just depends on how far one wants to go and how much they want to spend in a fly shop.