Small Stream Bamboo Fly Rods

Discussion in 'Bamboo, Fiberglass & Classic Reels' started by fixj, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. fixj Member

    Posts: 51
    Bellevue, WA
    Ratings: +11 / 0
    need some education

    I see "small stream" bamboo rods offered for sale....rebuilt from old mass market bamboo rods. They are usually built from the mid and tip sections into a 6 ft rod. Most look good with new finish and hardware but wondering how they would cast. Has anyone had experience with this or an opinion.
    I am also wondering about what weight line they would cast? For example a 3 ' mid and 3' tip section from a 6 wt rod.
    Thanks .
  2. rockthief Fly fishing = food for my soul

    Posts: 204
    Brownsville Oregon
    Ratings: +29 / 0
    have one that is 6'6" and it casts a four weight just fine even a three depending on the line. I like the four the best.
  3. Lugan Joe Streamer

    Posts: 2,381
    Beautiful View, WA
    Ratings: +761 / 2
    Tread carefully. Supposedly, the performance of those rods varies wildly. I often buy rods sight unseen, but I'd only buy one of those if I were offered the opportunity to test cast it. If a seller is willing to do that, you'd likely only be out the shipping. But even then, shipping a rod both ways could run you $50 or more. You might be better off choosing a rod made from the ground up, such as one based on a Paul Young (PHY) "Midge" taper.
    Blue likes this.
  4. Mike Monsos AKA flyman219

    Posts: 462
    Redmond, Washington, USA.
    Ratings: +73 / 0
    I have a "banty" that I made quite a few years ago. It started out as a SouthBend 9' 3/2 8 wt that was a real brute for my style of fishing. The banty came out pretty well, if you are around Redmond you are welcome to give it a try to see for yourself how it compares to a nice Cattanach 7' 4wt taper.

    Mike
  5. Steve Kokita FISHON206

    Posts: 573
    Burien, Washington
    Ratings: +135 / 0
    I have made several short mid/tip bamboo rods from HI's, Monty's and So. Bends. The wet fly softer (whippier) actions make a better short rod in my opinion. I cut the butt section off long enough to put the reel seat and grip on, then pin the ferrule. The rods I have are 6'8" and are fun to fish with. But if you start with a 9' 5wt rod and shorten it, now you have a 6'8" 5wt rod. It will cast a 4 okay, but I don't mind calling it what it is, some try to sell them as light line bamboo because they're shorter and smaller in diameter. Just my .02
  6. Troutcreek Active Member

    Posts: 110
    white Salmon, Washington
    Ratings: +30 / 0
    I don’t see anything wrong with these types of rods, but I do have a comment. Mike hints at it in his post. The action will probably be ok (depending on the taper) but it is unlikely that it will be as nice as a rod that was designed for that length.
  7. Lugan Joe Streamer

    Posts: 2,381
    Beautiful View, WA
    Ratings: +761 / 2
    Or you could wait patiently for a bargain in a rod that was designed and built from the ground up with a proper small stream taper. For example, you could buy the 6'4" 3wt Zietak I have for sale on Clark's for not much more than the rods made from parts of other rods: http://classicflyrodforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=53890
  8. Blue Active Member

    Posts: 1,144
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Ratings: +104 / 0
    I like reading these described as "short rods". I am sorry, a top two section of a three piece rod is not a Banty.
    Banty's are built on a who taper. I can't help but think you are loosing a very important feature of a rod by not including the Butt section.
  9. Mike Monsos AKA flyman219

    Posts: 462
    Redmond, Washington, USA.
    Ratings: +73 / 0
    "Banty" is a term that I have ran across many times describing a rod that has been shortened to reduce it's length substancially. For example using the mid and tip section for a three piece 9'er to end up with something about 6' with a lighter line rating.

    These are however not nearly as nice as a taper that has been developed from the reel seat to the tip top carefully calculated for a specific action, slow, para, med fast, fast etc.

    There is no comparison to a nicely designed taper for a short rod, or any length for that matter the taper is what makes a great rod feel the way it does.

    By shotening a 9' "club" of a bamboo rod to 6' you may end up with something that you will fish and enjoy occasionally, at least until you cast a nicely designed rod taper then all bets are off.

    Mike
    Alex MacDonald likes this.
  10. Blue Active Member

    Posts: 1,144
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Ratings: +104 / 0
    A Banty is a short rod, but not a "shorten" nine footer. Banty was MADE short from butt section to tip top.
    Kind of like fishing a fly with a spinning outfit and claiming to fly fish. No big deal, just not true.
    I just think people are trying to pass off old dime a dozen Sears and Roebuck bamboo rods for something they are not.
    Just my feelings.
  11. Mike Monsos AKA flyman219

    Posts: 462
    Redmond, Washington, USA.
    Ratings: +73 / 0
    My apoligies Blue, I did not realize that the term "Banty" was atually used for a "designed taper" of a short rod, I'm going to have to research it a bit and get up to speed and see what tapers were developed under this label.

    You are right about people making some questionable claims as to the "action" of a "shortened" rod. My "shortened 9'er" is OK at best, do I fish the rod?, no, I'd rather fish other "proper" tapers that I have made or other makers have made. Let the buyer beware and if possible be sure to cast the rod first or have a three day inspection and test casting window to finalize the purchase.

    Mike
  12. Castingintothewind New Member

    Posts: 1
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I am an amateur builder. I have built two bamboo rods now. My latest was a 5'6" Bogart Chile Pepper Taper. Rod DNA had the taper and the description said it was a great caster. It is my new favorite rod. I can cast 30+ feet with it and it fits under all the high trees of the mountain steams I like to fish. I have cast a "refinished" tip and mid section 6' rod and It felt bulky and inaccurate, especially compared to my reel seat to tip taper rod. The other key is many of those mass produced rods are not made from tonkin cane. There is a big difference in the feel of the two canes. I just moved here to Washington so this is my first post. Glad to see there are many bamboo casters out there. Great forums! --Dan
  13. Mike Monsos AKA flyman219

    Posts: 462
    Redmond, Washington, USA.
    Ratings: +73 / 0
    Welcome to the forum Dan, it's a great place to hang out.
    Mike
  14. Steve Kokita FISHON206

    Posts: 573
    Burien, Washington
    Ratings: +135 / 0
    Troutcreek, some of the rods I used to make a shorty with were heavy nasty clubs. They must've had arms like Popeye in the old days. Trust me, in their full length they are not nice to cast or to fish with for any period of time.
  15. Troutcreek Active Member

    Posts: 110
    white Salmon, Washington
    Ratings: +30 / 0
    Steve-
    I don’t think I disagreed with you. Some of the older rods may have a better auction when they are shorter.
    When I design a taper; I start within certain known variables. For example, with a 4 wt. I use .068 as the standard tip diameter. .066 could be used for more delicacy or, .070 if you wanted a stronger tip. On that same 4 wt I use .013 increases every 5” station. This over simplifies the design process but if you used these numbers you will get in the ball park for a rod that will cast a 4 wt DT line.
    When you cut down a longer rod, the tip is usually larger and the slope is established for a different line wt.
    Will it work? Probably
    Is it optimum? Probably not.
    Best regards,
    TC
  16. Steve Kokita FISHON206

    Posts: 573
    Burien, Washington
    Ratings: +135 / 0
    Hi TC, no disagreement at all! You're in a league of bamboo above me! I've just re-done a dozen blue collar ebay rods so far....made some fishing sticks! I'm an old carpenter so maybe one of these years I'll build some bamboo but for now this way is a easy inexpensive way to enjoy and fish bamboo. I do have some classic Hardy's making my bamboo look pretty cool!
  17. Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

    Posts: 3,321
    Haus Alpenrosa, Lederhosenland
    Ratings: +880 / 0
    Fixj, Give a serious look at Headwaters' Favorite Santiam 4-wt. I have one, and really love it! So much so, in fact, that I just ordered another one from them; they have a new field grade that's their Deluxe series with one tip.
  18. Blue Active Member

    Posts: 1,144
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Ratings: +104 / 0
    Orvis has a neat little 5' 5 wt that is like 2.2 oz. Sweet stick
  19. para_adams Active Member

    Posts: 215
    Bothell, WA
    Ratings: +51 / 0
    I'm bringing back this old thread with a new question. Does anyone have an old Granger 9050 butt & mid they'd sell cheap? I'm on the hunt for them. Here's why...

    I recently refinished a Granger Aristocrat 9050. It's a beautiful rod. It has a beautiful taper with dainty little tips and a nice feel…for a 9 footer. But that's the problem…it's a 9 footer and I just won't be happy taking it out unless I bring an ice pack for my wrist. Wimp? Yes. So, I also recently shortened an old South Bend 346 9' rod by shortening the butt from 36" to 25". This brings the length of the rod to just over 8 feet. Long enough to retain most of its original casting feel, but short enough to be a joy to hold and fish. But it turned out to cast just OK...It was fine, but nothing special.

    So yesterday I started looking at those beautiful mid and tip pieces from my Granger 9050 and wondered how they'd cast as a shortened 8' rod, especially with the delicate thin tips and that famous Granger taper. Well, the butt ferrule from the 346 fit the Granger 9050 very well, so to the lawn I went with a handful of 5 and 6 wt lines to try my experiment with a 25" butt + 36" Granger 9050 mid + 36" Granger 9050 tip. What I found was a pleasant surprise. This shortened 8' Granger 9050 cast and handled as well as my 8' prized Phillipson. Fast, light in the tip, powerful, and able to keep a good loop, even for this so-so caster. I was casting a 6wt line 70-75' which is about as far as I can cast any of my graphite rods. This one seems to be a real good project to do.

    So I'd like to take an old Granger 9050 butt and mid which are laying around needing refinishing and new tips and use them to complete my Granger 9050 shorty. I might make it 8', or I might make it 8-1/2' just short enough to be easy to cast all day but still retaining it's casting heart as originally designed.

    If you are wondering what happened to my 9050's butt section, I don't have the heart to chop it. As a Granger I just don't feel its right to hack it up. But if I can find an orphaned butt and mid, so to speak, and adapt them to the shorty approach, I'll turn my 9050 into two rods - a regular 9' and a fun to cast 8 or 8-1/2 footer.

    Please let me know if you have one! Ron
    Blue likes this.
  20. Blue Active Member

    Posts: 1,144
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Ratings: +104 / 0


    That is very interesting, I for one would love to see pictures.
    While in Idaho at the Fly Tying expo, I stopped at the "Sweet Grass" booth and next thing I know, I was out back casting a 6wt 7'9" Quad. I was into the backing of this crappy over used line without breaking a sweat.
    Long story short, they just put the ferrules and are finishing the cork grips...I am so excited!!!!!