So how do you get down in winter?

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by James Waggoner, Dec 21, 2009.

  1. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    So how do you get your presentation fishing slow and low, in the winter time?

    Lately for me it's been 12 to 16' of t-17 and a large tungston cone head leach....wow there's gotta be an easier way! With that I can fish a good steelhead flow at about 3' - 5' deep with confidence, ticking the larger boulders here and there, knowing I'm getting at least a couple of feet of depth on hang down.
     
  2. flatheadmatt

    flatheadmatt Member

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    I get down with a bottle of wine, roaring fire, some good jazz, and a hot blonde:thumb:
     
  3. Chum83

    Chum83 New Member

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    can always try to nymph if you really need but i think what you are doing right would be the way to go
     
  4. flybill

    flybill Purveyor of fine hackle, wine & cigars!

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    One of those "blue lines" in the WA, MT,
    iagree

    I rarely use more than a type 6 sinktip, although I have a number of t-8, t-11 and a t-17 tip...
     
  5. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    I'm not opposed to nymphing, I just prefer to swing....not that the thought hasn't crossed my mind, there is a few runs that I fish hands down would be most productively covered with an indicator, but I just swing the edges and hope. While in the boat, if I'm not rowing I do nymph in transit between drifts, not that I'm any good at it.
     
  6. Wayne Kohan

    Wayne Kohan fish-ician

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    I was pretty depressed after reading the flyfishing research site once again as posted in the polyleader thread (http://flyfishingresearch.net/calcem...dsinktips.html) about sinktips. I use T14 to get down as well as a weighted fly. T14 uses the rule number of 6 meaning that it takes 6 feet of T14 to get down 1 foot at 3 mph. So to get 3 feet down, it takes 18 feet and 4 feet down, it takes 24 feet. The weighted fly only helps a few inches. Now this is at hangdown and certainly as you cast across current and let it sink before putting tension on, it will get deeper. I have noticed a lot of my fish come shortly after the line comes tight, and I would imagine that is because that is when I am deepest and also the fly is rising, perhaps inducing a strike.

    I fished a sink tip of 15 feet of T14 last time out and hooked 2 fished, but not once did I even tick the bottom during about 4 hours of fishing in different areas. I suspect my success rate would be better if I could get down more. I am going out today and will add another loop of T14 and see if I can get down more, without it being a major pain to cast. There becomes a point where the enjoyment of spey casting dissipates and I might as well start nymphing. I hope I don't need to get to that today.

    Wayne
     
  7. thewaker

    thewaker Tight line takes ain't no fakes!!

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    On skagit set ups,I have started to cut my 15ft tips back by 5ft and then add in a 5ft DC cheater before the sinktip. Same overall length but the DC cheater helps to keep it down better in my opinion. It is easier for the floating tip of the skagit to be pulled under by the DC cheater,then the tip, as opposed to a 15ft tip off the end of a straight floating skagit.The angle of the dangle for the tip off of a floating skagit end is steeper. With the DC cheater and tip the angle to the fish is much more gradual and conducive to keeping the tip in the zone longer.

    I think a type 3 and the 5ft DC cheater gets down as far as a type 6 without one. The cheater also helps to slow the swing down because you have more sunken line in the water. It gets to feeling a bit more like a full sink line in a way. With this setup you can adjust your tips to whatever you like and as heavy as you like to fish where you need to.Fishing a weighted or unweighted fly can further dial in your depth.

    I was fishing a spot the other day where I had this setup on, and it worked great. I was only using t-8 and a weighted fly in a slightly deeper,faster riffle run and I was just scratching bottom every so often. I was getting a perfect slow swing without throwing a bike chain out there.

    Try it

    Mark
     
  8. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    10' of T14 is about my max. Last year I tried all the mega sized shit because I heard stories and what not. It didn't bring me any more fish than I usually get.

    I am not sure I buy into that whole sink tip test that those guys did. I fish a short belly Skagit kinda line and on a lot of the runs I pull steelhead, I can see that my tip and belly and fly are diving down deep into the water.

    How do I do this? I cast straight across the current, don't mend much, maybe feed some line, suspend as much running line as possible, and lead the fly by a hair. It is a delicate balancing act but I can definitely see my sink tip and fly and the tip of the belly diving deep down and it makes me feel more confident when I see that.

    I am very rapidly moving towards that old duffer camp that makes a big deal out of line control and reading water as to where to place your cast. It really does make a HUGE difference.
     
  9. pcknshvl

    pcknshvl Member

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    Sinking Scandi heads: DDC system, AFS S1 w/polyleaders, AFS S2/S3 & AFS S4. The S2/S3 is excellent.
     
  10. shotgunner

    shotgunner Anywhere ~ Anytime

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    J.. nice post. Several of my haunts fish best with a floating Skagit. Presentation IS the game. Specific patterns.. not so much.

    pcknshvl, I'm with you. The DDC is an extremely versitile system. Cut it a little fat and it can be fished very similar to a Skagit. The dual density factory tips are approx 15' [their metric] so if you've cut to somewhere 36' - 38' total the intermediate body will measure in low - mid 20' range.. They'll easily turn over T 14 while at the same time dropping below the heaviest surface currents, relieving alot of the water tension and getting below conflicting seams, etc.

    I had friends suggest an intermediate Skagit head a few years ago.. and were promptly laughed off the board. Now Bob Meiser & Steve Godshall are going to be building them :thumb: They may be available now. I think they'll prove their worth.
     
  11. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    there a tons of techniques to "get down" but I like to let the line sink as it slides downriver and count the number of seconds before it comes under tension. If I dont feel like I am getting down I cast closer to the 90 (vs the 45 down) and give it a couple more seconds. I am 100% in agreement with Wayne on the fish striking at the "lift" when the tension pulls on the fly at the corner as it begins to swing.
     
  12. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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    Where can you buy t-14, I can't seem to find it ?
     
  13. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    I hate to do this and encourage these guys but both Jeremys have it right.:clown:
     
  14. ZigZag

    ZigZag Member

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    I gotta say its more like a Nymph/swing for me. I cast at a 90 degree angle put a slight mend in the line, then maybe a feed and pintch into the seem as I put tension on the line. The highest sink I got is T14 and usually opt for T11 cuz we all know about the hang down.
     
  15. Daniel Nelson

    Daniel Nelson BAMF

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    a case of beer, ice auger, and a flashy weighted nymph.
     
  16. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    Yeah, sure mending can get you down but as soon as the line comes tight and the swing starts you're rising and rising fast out of the targeted zone. In deeper flows the sink tip keeps the fly lower through out the swing; now the fly will still rise, just not as fast and as much. Now of course the targeted zone can be the entire water column in the summertime when fish are active and aggressive but in the winter time you got to be the aggresor and bring the fly to the fish.

    Think of it this way, your fishing waste deep in walking pace flow, casting out 65' with a weighted fly and a type 8 tip at 90 degrees accross stream into 4' of water, you mend a couple of times, you've got great depth, your now about 40' out and down stream when your swing starts, the fly quickly starts to rise from 4' of depth to 1' and your only half way through the swing, you finish your swing in 3 1/2' of water... now there are alot of other factors but let us assume it happend just as it was discribed in a cold winter stream targeting steelhead....who wouldn't think more depth would be a benefit, fishing lower thoughout the entire swing?
     
  17. ZigZag

    ZigZag Member

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    I like where your going with this, I just dont usually fish a body of water that has a uniform 4ft depth. I cant think of very many winter swing runs I fish that are 65ft at 90 degrees and 4ft deep. More like 65ft at 90degrees and 6-10ft deep. I then feed and pinch into the seem geting good depth as the fly rises with the swing I finish in the strike zone at 2-4 ft of water. I am on my way out the door to fish the Sandy R. I will be doing more research and maybe even try some of that T17.
     
  18. Jim Ficklin

    Jim Ficklin Genuine Montana Fossil

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    Good concept, but I substitute smooooth whiskey for the wine, old time Rock & Roll for the jazz, & eliminate the hot blonde entirely (at my age, she'd have to be a desperate hot blonde and then would ultimately only be disappointed). Apart from that, I pretty much mimic Jeremy's technique.
     
  19. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    First off you are wading to deep. When I see people wading up to their balls I wait for them to get done then fish the water they missed up close. Second, why does everyone think the line rises during the swing? If you are controlling the speed of your swing correctly the line should not rise.
     
  20. sashjo

    sashjo Member

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    Good discussion. I was tossing 15 ft of T-17 on Sunday. However, I'm tying and fishing weighted flies less and less. I do fish a weighted fly but more to get the hook riding up than to get the fly down. With a few feet of leader, how much extra depth do you get with a tungsten weighted fly? Is it worth the risk of dinging an expensive rod and all the extra hangups?