So, where are the fish....

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by martyg, Aug 18, 2008.

  1. gt Active Member

    Posts: 2,616
    sequim, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    so CCA has collected dues from 7,000 folks, $175,000? i ask again, where is the action? motivational speeches have their place and that drum beat makes folks want to join hands, but CCA is, right now, just another supposed advocacy group that is promising to 'do something' but is doing what all the other groups have done before, not much. i suggest sending yur twentyfivebucks to your favorite canidate for public office with a note attached demanding action.
  2. jcnewbie Member

    Posts: 854
    Kent, Washington
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Hmmm! Maybe if all this talk on this forum could be put into form such as letters, memos, emails etc. to our half-assed elected representatives, it may be more productive than grousing about the situation among ourselves, whatcha' thimk?

    JC (..I doubt if any of them read this forum! :rolleyes:)
  3. Don Freeman Freeman

    Posts: 1,249
    Olympia, WA
    Ratings: +202 / 0

    Since you asked. It's now in public domain, so I can share some excerpts from the Governor's July 11, 2008 Letter to Jerry Gutzwiler, Chair of the WDFW. Following input from sources including CCA members, and presumably in light of the verifiable voting blocks authenticated by membership rosters of groups like CCA, the governor has tasked the chair, and copied Senators Murry, Cantwell and (WA) Jacobsen, Reps Dicks, Baird and Blake, Director Koenings of WDFW and Juli Wilkerson of the Commercial Trade and Economic Development Dept to wit:

    (Abridged by me)


    1. Implement hatchery reform consistent with science based research
    2. Provide a summary and schedule for implementing full selective fishery methods for commercial harvesters.
    3. Educate the public on the economic benefits of both recreational and commercial fisheries, and their impact on our communities
    4. Develop tourism attractions and programs to benefit coastal communities suffering from collapse of fishing opportunities.

    I find this to be a refreshing change from the business as usual culture that has brought us to this point. It's certainly not a silver bullet, but it is a response to demands for reform. Go to the CCA website and review the formal positions in WA and OR which include these, and other points including derelict net removal, catch monitoring, harvest management, and providing nutrients to natal streams. Take a look at the success stories on the other two coasts in restoring fisheries threatened with collapse from over harvest.

    These are specific recommendations, not just a letter from me to a politician stating I want them to do something, and expecting them figure it out themselves.
    It costs money to hire experts and draft these studies, though all CCA board members are volunteers. These positions have been subjected to peer review and are defensible. Legislation can be written from these studies that can effect the changes, but it all costs money, so that's where our dues and donations come in.

    CCA has only been in the area for a year, and has laid the groundwork for progress. What have you accomplished working independently?
  4. gt Active Member

    Posts: 2,616
    sequim, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    freedon, glad you are an advocate and feel some passion about what you are promoting.

    the gov's statements are political theatre, nothing more or less. if she had moved to close down all harvest following OR and CA, then i would believe progress has started. if she had recalled members of the various 'fish' commissions she has appointed and changed the balance to include the sport fishing community and those who manufacture and sell fishing related equipment, then i would believe progress is being made.

    my only point is that after having thrown THOUSANDS of green backs at various supposed organizations who vowed to change the tide, i see CCA as just another of these groups, sorry. when the conversation stops and the law suits follow, then you and the CCA will have my attention. until then, this is just tap dancing while the fish disappear.
  5. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,395
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,355 / 9
    I've contacted CCA via the web site about a chapter in Kitsap County. As of yet no response. The other chapters just seem too far away to participate actively. I prefer to participate locally so as to have more of a voice and improve my awareness where I live, not somewhere I have little knowledge about.
  6. Don Freeman Freeman

    Posts: 1,249
    Olympia, WA
    Ratings: +202 / 0
  7. Don Freeman Freeman

    Posts: 1,249
    Olympia, WA
    Ratings: +202 / 0
    gt, I share some of your skepticism about advocacy groups; I've never been much of a joiner. However, I wasn't been argumentative when I asked what you can accomplish working independently. CCA has to date initiated and won more lawsuits than the other "advocacy" groups, which was my criteria for selecting a focus for my energies.

    What I find consistently lacking in critics of efforts like CCA is the lack of alternative plans. We may be tap dancing while the fish disappear, but if that does happen, I will know that I have made an effort. I'm not crazy about tap dancing, but it feels better than wringing my hands and finding fault with the efforts of others.

    If you have a solid program with a better chance of staving off extinction, I will gladly, and sincerely assist you with it.
  8. gt Active Member

    Posts: 2,616
    sequim, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    read a bit more carefully, freedon. through the decades i have been fishing, i have liberally sent $$$$ to various organizations who claimed to be focused on fishing related issues of interest to me and a wide range of other folks. only two groups have come through with action and results: american rivers and the nature conservancy, i continue to support both of them.

    the various fishing targetted groups have all suffered from a lack of focus, organization and leadership. CCA looked like a fresh start. i communicated with mr loomis for a month or so via email until he suggested i call him directly. i did so and asked several pointed questions after listening to his stump speech. unfortunately, mr loomis could not respond with any action plan for: removing nets; leveling the playing field among all commercial interests; laying out a strategy for becoming a player on the decision making bodies.

    those, in my eyes are 3 key components to change. given a lack of direction as expressed by mr loomis, i placed CCA into the same hopper i have placed the other supposed fishing advocay groups.

    that said, i would be happy to see CCA step up and actually get something accomplished aside from a political theatre brushoff from the gov. and it could be as simple as CCA drafting a short list of issues and asking every political canidate for office to respond. posting those responses, without commentary, would provide everyone interested in saving our anadramous fish an opportunity to make an informed choice, at least based on these issues.

    so freedon, i continue to do what any ordinary citizen can do, contact those policy makers i have elected to office and ask for clarification on the issues i presented to mr loomis. if you have other issues you see as relevant, it is incumbent on you, as a citizen, to use the rights this country has granted you and ask.

    can i alone make a difference? probably not. what i can do is bring issues to the attention of elected officials who are always looking for an edge. if you or i can clearly give them a pathway, often times they will step into the mix on behalf of everyone.

    or, you can simply send a check to your favorite group dejur and expect someone else to do something, your choice as always.
  9. TrappedinCO Help! I'm trapped in a landlocked state.

    Posts: 144
    Littleton, CO
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Now that this thread has gone towards a discussion of conservation groups, what's your opinion (which I realize is a dangerous question to ask around here) on Trout Unlimited and their efforts? Do you find them to be a player or performing well in Washington with respect to salmon recovery?
  10. gt Active Member

    Posts: 2,616
    sequim, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    TU??

    nice magazine, beautiful calendars.

    cancelled my membership 12 years ago. fish conservation and conservation related issues are not within their objectives, apparently.
  11. Don Freeman Freeman

    Posts: 1,249
    Olympia, WA
    Ratings: +202 / 0
    gt, I hope we've not got off on the wrong foot. I believe we're eye to eye on everything we've discussed. I started a CCA chapter here in the capitol out of a feeling of impending doom and a personal need to feel like I'm doing more than grousing about the problems. I've got the time and don't see how I can do any harm.

    Oh, and TU. I quit sending my $ only four years ago. How long do they keep sending those sweet calendars? I really look forward to those things.
  12. gt Active Member

    Posts: 2,616
    sequim, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    no worries, freedon :thumb:
  13. Walt K Searcher

    Posts: 88
    Poulsbo, WA
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    There is a Kitsap CCA chapter--I believe they meet at 6:30 pm on the last Thursday of the month at the Sportsmans Warehouse in Sliverdale. Haven't been able to make a meeting yet, but that also holds true for the Kitsap Fly Anglers ...
  14. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,395
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,355 / 9
    Walt, that is great info. I'd go there for a meeting, hell i'm in there all the time anyway. I've also been itching to check out the Kitsap Fly Anglers. I need to absorb as much as possible, I have a lot to learn.

    GT, I'm in a TU chapter too. I disagree on your position, but I'm new there too. What I have seen is that there is very limited members who are active and they have done quite a few good projects with those limited numbers. I'm not sure what anyone would expect the same six or seven regular members, mostly retired guys, to really leverage and get accomplished.
  15. gt Active Member

    Posts: 2,616
    sequim, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    mumbles, local people are the salt of the earth. we all do what we can where we are to the best of our abilities. and often times those local folks see a problem and go to work fixing it.

    i was thinking of TU as a national organization and what that national organization represents and supports.

    as one small example of just how that organization functions, george w. bush had just wacked the budgets of the very federal agencies focused on restoration and protection of riparian zones. TU, that same week, presented this same person with an award for his focus on conservation!

    most organizations which begin with great purpose and objectives, which become humongous burocracies, tend to shift their focus to staying humongous and nothing much happens of value. TU is a great example of an organization which has lost it's purpose for being. Ducks Unlimited is another example of the same sort or organization.
  16. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,395
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,355 / 9
    GT, great points. My father in law is very active in his TU chapter in NH. He strongly encouraged me to seek out TU and do what I can. I've been impressed with the local drive, but the obstacles put up before projects by tribal, state and federal hatcheries have really stalled many of those projects that the members wanted to take on. My vision is pretty limited I guess and that makes me part of the salt of the earth. I just hope that some of these conservancy organizations have enough salt with enough vision to make successful progress in the big picture. Sometimes I just feel that all of my efforts of cleaning up crap, releasing wild fish and trying to be a good asset for our resources are for nothing when I see some of the activites from the other side of the rivers or from those who just don't seem to give a shit. I want my girls to have the chance to catch that first salmon, a 6 lb coho in the bay, the one I can remember hammering a fly like nothing I had ever experienced. That will be with me for an eternity, who would not want everyone to have that possible experience? I've enjoyed this thread, learned a bit more and gotten some thoughts turning about what else I can do besides bitch and fish.