Soft or Hard running line?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Paul Huffman, Nov 10, 2002.

  1. Paul Huffman

    Paul Huffman Lagging economic indicator

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    I wanted to try mono as a running line behind a fast sinking shooting head. Do I want to go soft, like Maxima Ultragreen or hard, like Chameleon?
     
  2. Greg

    Greg Member

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    Softer (limper) lines will have less memory and therefore result in fewer tangles and shoot better, but even then it will need to be stretched out frequently. Some folks actually soak their mono running lines in water overnight to get them "limp" for the next day's fishing saying that as mono soaks in some water it becomes limper. I tried it but didn't appreciate a significant difference although the theory sounds reasonable. Most mono advocates choose the Amnesia brand product as it supposedly exhibits less memory than all other mono although it too requires frequent stretching in cold air and water.

    I personally don't like using mono fishing line as a running line - it results in more frustration than its worth for me. I now use Rio's clear intermediate running line; it handles very well, has extremely low memory, shoots nicely and is available in .024 or .030 diameters. I like this running line a lot and use the .030 diameter line with a 350 grain head (27ft of LC-13) on a 9wt casting to kelp beds around ledges and drop-offs for blackmouth. This set-up has worked very well for me.

    Greg
     
  3. YAKIMA

    YAKIMA AKA: Gregory Mine

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    MY ADVISE, DO NOT USE MONE... EVER..... AT ONE POINT IN TIME YOU WILL GET THE FISH OF YOUR LIFE, AND THAT BLASTED STUFF WILL LET GO AS IT WILL GET OLD, BRITTLE, DETERIORATE, OR GET CAUGHT UP IN THE OTHER MONO AND NOT LET IT GO OUT OF THE REEL. SOFT LINE WILL GET CAUGHT UP IN ITSELF, AND HARD LINE WHEN COLD WILL LOOK LIKE A SLINKIE WHEN IT GOES OUT. . WORST CASE WOULD BE TO USE 30 POUND BACKING OR SOME OF THE SHOOTING LINE BACKINGS THAT ARE OUT THERE. I KNOW THERE ARE TIMES YOU MAY WANT TO FIND A BETTER WAY, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO LINES, YOU CANT SCRIMP OR CHEAT THE SYSTEM, AS IT WILL BITE YOU IN THE ASS... I DIDNT LOSE THE FISH OF MY LIFE THAT WAY, BUT IT WAS A SURE CLOSE SECOND. GREG
     
  4. pAyRollEak

    pAyRollEak New Member

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    The big leak!
    I don't know who makes it but this stuff called Amnesia? is similar to mono and is very limp, ultra strong.
    I use it for my running lines. Comes in green and red that I'm aware of.
    leak
     
  5. Rob Blomquist

    Rob Blomquist Formerly Tight Loops

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    For sinking running lines, you can get Amnesia? and Braided Mono, there are also fly line style sinking running lines that are available.

    But the question in my mind is what are you going to do with these heads, fish the ocean? In a river a floating running line is going to me more than adequate to get down.

    Rob
    ---------
    Genetic pollution damages wild
    stocks, bonk those Hatchery Zombies!
     
  6. Brian

    Brian New Member

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    Major,
    Don't use Maxima. As other have suggested, try Amnesia if you want to use a mono type running line. Also, visit Rio's website at
    www.rioproducts.com
    Click on the Rio products pull down menu and click sinking tips and
    shooting heads. Check out the Powerflex Core Shooting Lines and the Slickshooter products. I've had good luck with the .030 shooting line for fishing various heads weights. I've used it in both cold (Puget Sound, local rivers) and warm (Baja, Bahamas) water conditions.
    Good luck,
    Brian
     
  7. Coho

    Coho Member

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    Soft or Hard running line? - Amnesia! 8 tips for success

    Major,

    You will get all types of opinions and convictions on this subject - here is mine:

    I have used SH setups extensively for the last 25 years. I use them for salmon, rockfish & tuna both off the beach and in boats, in rivers and estuaries for salmon and steelhead and shad, and in lakes for trout. I have landed and released hundreds of fish using shooting heads.

    Amnesia is my hands-down favorite. It shoots like a dream, it is soft and pliable if treated right, and also inexpensive.

    A few tips for success;

    1. Stretch the Amnesia throroughly before your first cast.
    2. I favor the 20 lb test Amnesia as it casts farther - but use the 30lb if you are concerned about tangles. (I have rarely ever had tangle problems)
    3. A stripping basket is helpful. (true for any type of shooting line)(If you don't have one, what I do is hold the loops in my lips as I make my cast. Make sure you remember to let go as you shoot!)
    4. Minimize protrusions - the shooting line will easily catch on protruding items as you are casting. So keep your waders, boat deck, float tube apron cleaned up accordingly.
    5. I have used floating shooting line but; a. It does not sink as well so it takes away some of the advantages of the sinking SH system, b. It does not cast nearly as well as amnesia - again reducing some of the advantage of a SH system., and 3. Tangles have never been a problem for me, so any perceived advantage here is meaningless.
    6. Use a double nail knot to secure the Amnesia to your backing, and coat the connections with some kind of lacquer to keep them smooth.
    7. Replace your Amnesia frequently (it's cheap) and by the way check the loops on your SH often too.
    8. Learn how to cast a SH - or get some good instruction.


    SH heads are wonderful flyfishing tool, highly appropriate & effective for some applications. Used properly they allow you to cast farther and do it with less false casting than any other method out there. Don't let the naysayers get you down. A lot of folks who are down on SH have never learned to use them properly.

    Have fun!

    Coho

    :THUMBSUP
     
  8. Paul Huffman

    Paul Huffman Lagging economic indicator

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    The fish of my life was possibly lost today. My 12 lb. flouro tippet failed at the knot. I wish I could have at least seen that fish.

    I've been interested in shooting heads for years but I never had a chance to try one. There's a few corners of the Kickitat I can't reach with my sink tip, so I was going to try a fast sinking head. I read about the problems that Trey Combs has with the way they belly downstream, so I'll see if I can counter that. I thought the deep sink head might work well on shad this spring. And I wonder if a floating head could help cast bass bugs where I can't get most of a back cast in.

    An article on shooting heads in the last Flyfishing and Tying Journal got me going. That article mentioned Amnesia line and other mono as a cheap alternative to braided running line. I was having a hard time finding the Amnesia, but now I found some outlets.

    I figured on putting a bimini loop on each end of the running line, big enough to pass over the spool, and a Cortland braided loop in the thick end of the head.

    Tight Loops, when you say you need to stretch the Amnesia often, to you mean pull it through a piece of rubber, or tie it to a tree and back up?
     
  9. Paul Huffman

    Paul Huffman Lagging economic indicator

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    Soft or Hard running line? - Amnesia! 8 tips for success

    I forgot to ask in my last post - what about shooting heads in the tropics? I'm guessing that it would work well on roosters off the beach or off the boat. But what about on the flats?

    After watching my buddy blast out line with a spey rod, I was wondering if you could spey cast for bonefish. But we concluded no: when spey casting you need the current of the river to pull the line downstream so you can flip it back up. Not much line comes in, or shoots out. On the flats it's shoot out, strip in, shoot, strip.
     
  10. Rob Blomquist

    Rob Blomquist Formerly Tight Loops

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    Soft or Hard running line? - Amnesia! 8 tips for success

    I can't see why you couldn't do it. And in this case, you aren't going for depth, so a floating line would work fine. And you can get shooting heads in all sink types and floating. The only thing I haven't found is a clear intermediate shooting head.
    ---------
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    stocks, bonk those Hatchery Zombies!
     
  11. Rob Blomquist

    Rob Blomquist Formerly Tight Loops

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    Soft or Hard running line? - Amnesia! 8 tips for success

    And so when are you available for instruction, Coho? I would love to meet someone that could do more than show me the double haul, which I am pretty decent with, I think.

    I just get all tangled (literally) in dealing with it out on the water, and would love to hear from a guy just how a Hi-D head is handled, and what sort of rods you recommend, as I think I am due for a new one for my heads.

    Rob
    ---------
    Genetic pollution damages wild
    stocks, bonk those Hatchery Zombies!
     
  12. Greg

    Greg Member

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    Soft or Hard running line? - Amnesia! 8 tips for success

    Tightloops,

    Rio Aqualux - $28.00 from the San Jose Fly Shop http://www.sjflyshop.com/

    Greg
     
  13. Rob Blomquist

    Rob Blomquist Formerly Tight Loops

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    I didn't comment about stretching Amnesia?.

    Sorry to hear you lost a beauty. But I want to go fishing with you, or should I say catching with you.

    Rob
    who would love a few more fish on my resume.
    ---------
    Genetic pollution damages wild
    stocks, bonk those Hatchery Zombies!
     
  14. Coho

    Coho Member

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    Soft or Hard running line? - Amnesia! 8 tips for success

    Hi Rob:

    Thanks for the nice comments. Unfortunately with time demands of a business and 4 wonderful children at home my fishing time is too scarce.

    From reading your posts, I would guess that you are an excellent fisherman and a very proficient caster too (your moniker is one clue!), so I am not sure that I could be of additional help to you.

    A couple of thoughts - if the floating running line is working for you and it gets down deep enough - stick with it. I have personally never enjoyed using it though. I think that keeping your boat deck (or float tube or waders) clean and free of protuberances helps to solve the line snag problem. When you are shooting a lot of line, Amnesia will catch on things. One of my buddies has a flats boat and by design the decks are free of almost anything that might catch a stray loop.

    As far as rods go, personal preference rules. I generally like faster action rods that load up quickly for SH - but my go to coho beach rod is an original 20+ year old 9' for a 6 Sage. I have used it for many years and by familiarity it works well for me. I am now buying rods for all of my children - maybe someday I will be get one of the new Scott or Orvis 9'6 for 6 weight guns for myself!

    If you are really serious about casting help, I would suggest a couple of local guys who are both great with SH. Seth at Creekside (425)392-3800 grew up throwing big lines for Stripers on the East Coast, and John Fiskum of Fiskum Flyfishing Adventures (425)432-3649 is a wonderful caster and instructor and very knowledgeable about SH technique.

    I notice that you started flyfishing in the 1970's on the Stilly. I used to go up to the NF after classes at the UW about that time - we have probably crossed paths a few times.

    Best regards,

    Coho
     
  15. Bob Triggs

    Bob Triggs Your Preferred Olympic Peninsula Fly Fishing Guide

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    I think you want to go hard, as in Rio or Mason, Amnesia etc, running line, which is firm but supple and has a good lay-up on the spool while shooting very well with little drag or friction in the guides. I think that using Maxima or Ultragreen will not work out well, really too stretchy, bungee like and the running line materials have come a long way since the old days of plain mono from the shelf.It's a little more expensive but you will have a line that works and lasts in most temperature situations. I used mason out on the great lakes in New York and Pennsylvania and it was fine, even with ice in the guides, even in 80 degree weather too. I would try the Rio at this point. I used it a little and it's great.I like the feel of it and it spools well, handles well.Worth a try.
     

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