I recently got a kit to build a Cabelas FT (Fast Action) 9' 8 wt. I am getting ready to epoxy the handle and have a few questions first. The directions that came pretty much suck. I have been reading Al Campell's column at FAOL but still am left with a few questions. 1. There various theories on which side of the blank to put the guides on, my thinking is: I am planning on using this rod for Salmon, Steelhead, SRC and Resident Coho. 8wt is probably more than enough, so I will put the guides on the spline for casting and let the soft side fight fish. But then again the blank is fast action, should I give the rod more fighting power? Any opinions? 2. Finding the spline. All the directions that I read tell me to bend the blank and rotate until I feel the "thump" or "high side" and mark the opposite as the spline. The problem is that I feel two thumps on opposite sides of the blank. The lower section of the blank has one thump that is more distinct that the other and I can actually see the spline. The upper section is more difficult. I believe I have come to a conclusion as to which side is the spline. What if I am wrong??? 3. The kit came with two little packages of epoxy. I had to tape the blank a bit to fit the reel seat. Now I am worried that I might not have enough epoxy to "fill the gaps" should I buy more epoxy before mixing or am I worrying over nothing? 4. Can I use the epoxy on the tip top, or do I need to buy a stick of cement? If I need cement do I need the specialty rod building cement or is there a substitute that I can get locally (ie hardware store). 5. Is the fancy flip up hook keeper junk or really an upgrade? I have only seen the traditional before which seems to me to look a bit more hearty. Thanks for any advise you have, Ned
The way I remember the spline equation is: "Spline toward the fish." The strongest part of the rod is on the side of the power stroke of the cast where it counts. Gaps: What gaps? Expoxy: buy more if ther is any doubt. Hook keeper: If it looks "dorky" don't use it; get a regular one. Let your TASTE be the judge. Spline: Place the tip end of the rod on the floor and apply a little pressure on the assembled rod. As the blank is slowly rotated, the "spline" will become apparent as the rod rises slightlyand "falls off" after the spline has passed. Tip-TOP: DON"T use epoxy! You may need to replace it at some point. SuperDave
What SuperDave said... Spine towards the fish. Try to find the top of the spine, or as if you imagine climbing a steep hill, your climbing up one side, hit the top, then going down the other side. Gaps, I would assume your meaning the gaps between the masking tape? Yes you should fill the gaps, as well as coating the masking tape. You need to make sure to have a complete bond between the blank and the reel seat. Coat everything with cement, and slide the reel seat down the blank into place. This way you will push the excess cement out and off the bottom of the rod, and not all over the blank. If you already running out of cement, what are you going to attach the grip with? Your going to have to get more it sounds like. Too much can be a mess, yet you will assure a good bond. Not enough will be a nightmare later on down the road. That you don't want to learn the hard way. Once you coat the blank for the grip, and the grip comes in contact with the cement, do not back up, you'll pull the cement higher than the grip will cover it. Also twist the grip into place as you slide it into the glue. This will spread it out and fill in a lot of holes and gaps. Hook keepers are personal. I hate the ones that are a ring on a push in, or on a ring that you guide wrap into place. They rattle when casting and drive me nuts. I prefer traditional Get yourself some tip top adhesive, then save it. You never know when your going to need it again, or one of your buddies will. It can save a day when a tip gets snapped off. Do not use cement!!! Good Luck Greg
Spine.....hmmm. I build alot of Sage blanks, so they've got it marked for ya. On rods that don't, it depends on the quality. Some blanks are actually crooked. Some so much so that you can easily see it, and it can effect how the rod casts. Then it becomes the lesser of two evils-spine or straightness. Sometimes they're the same, but often, you've got to decide. As for epoxies, I use standard ol' 30 min stuff you buy at Wal-Mart for reel seats, cork, and tip tops. I've been building rods for going on ten years, and have never lost a tip and I have never heard back from anyone I've built a rod for about anything coming apart. I of course use rod epoxy for the thread. Jeff
Thanks for your help. I must admit that I just keep getting more confused. You mentioned that you test the assembled rod for the spline. After reading this I went looking and found similar advise. I thought that the spline was where the graphite overlaps. How do I know how to line this up when I initially assemble the two pieces. I mean, doesn't each section have its own spline or overlap of graphite sheets? All of the descriptions of this stuff seems inconsistant. I just need to truely understand before I proceed as I don't see having the money to do this again if I screw up. My real problem in the spline thing is that when I do all the bent rod, pressure, roll thing.. I get two hard parts and two soft parts or if you will two "thumps" each time I rotate the blank one full turn. On both sections.:beathead: I have never read anyone mention this. Maybe I am just missing it or then again maybe this Cabelas blank is junk Thanks again for your help, Ned
You're correct, each piece has it's own spine. I handle each piece indipendently. I'm not sure what you're asking about the bumps or the hard spots. That's your spine, aline your eyes/guides with that. Find your "bumps", align them up and down or whatever, mark it's orientation with a Sharpie and there you are. Often as well, if you look closely enough at the carbon fiber, you can see the overlap with your naked eye. Jeff
Yes, each rod section has it's own "spine"; getting the each sections spine aligned is the goal. That's done initially with each section and then as an assembled blank. (My original post may have mislead you on this point) The reality is spine idenfication and alignment is a relatively minor point in rod building; desireable, yes, impartative, no. Some rod actions are more sensative on this point than others. Started building rods with Fenwick fibreglas "seconds" back in the 60's. They weren't much affect by these matters. Currently, I build SAGE graphites exclusively and I DO take care to address this consideration. SAGE's are EXPENSIVE blanks and to do otherwise just doesn't to justice to the expense they represent. I WOULDN'T say Cabela's and you should take pride it what you produce. Doing a "search" will reveal sites that explain these principles with PICTURES as well as WORDS. They may clear-up some of the questions that you have raised. SuperDave
As I have understood it in the past, the two "thumps" you are experiencing are indeed the spine of the rod section. The larger of the two is when the spine is rotated to the bottom (outside of the bend) and the smaller is when it is rotated to the top (inside of the bend). I have heard a slightly different take on the spine. For lighter rods, yeah, you should put the spine towards the fish, on the side of the guides. But for larger rods and larger fish, I have heard to put it opposite to the fish, for a stronger backbone to fight with. Just my personal take, Finni
Hit up www.rodbuilding.org. In general "spine" is *far* overrated. Experts such as Tom Kirkman and others have run experiments and came to this conclusion.: The difference in power amounts to a minscule percentage between spined and unspined rods. Personally I build on the straightest axis for a majority of the rods I do. Additionally, the spining anyone does is based on a static deflection of the rod, which if you think about it has *very* little to do with the power applied during a cast (dynamic deflection).... -- Cheers -- James
Thanks for all the advise. James, thanks for the link. I did some reading there and get it now. The reason it is hard to understand is because it is primarily a wives tale and everyone has a different technique and opinion because the results are negligable. :thumb: I am glad to get the info because I just couldn't go on until I truly understood. The cool part is that the straightest axis is in line with what I had picked out as the dominant spine/spline. Now, any opinions on whether the guides go on the upper side or the lower side of the straightest axis if the bend is headed toward the floor? Thanks again for all of the advise and for the rodbuilder.org site. Ned
Butt up, tip down. The additional weight will then follow the straightest axis. If you do it the other way, it may be straight, it may not. The actual seam from the rolling is often not a straight line, so this means you could end up with some deflection either to the left or right. As an example take a bent piece of round wire and hold it so the curve faces down. If you push or pull down on it, it will always remain straight, if you then turn it over and try the same, it may torque..... NOTE THIS IS NOT ADVOCATING ANYTHING ABOUT GUIDES ON TOP OR BOTTOM ON THE SPINE! Loads on a rod will *ALWAYS* want to go to the bottom regarless of spine orientation. This is to demostrate nothing more than the very *slight* weight of the guides and the effect they would have *cosmetically* when sighted down the blank.... -- Cheers -- James
Oh yeah... A couple of other things... 1) If you can afford a few bucks, then order a urethane reel seat arbor. Much better and *far* more secure. If you can't afford it, then try to use a mixture of epoxy and fibreglass tape. This will allow you to build up a rather wide surface meant to deal with structural load rather than trying to fill a gap with a non structrual glue 2) You can use other hot melt glues for the tip top, but they need to be a hot melt, rather than a lower temp melting glue. But as a note, the Gudebrod stuff works just great and it's around the same price as other stuff. 3) The folding hook keepers are tre chic, but on anything more than a 6wt, I just forgo the hook keeper. In general the damn flies you are throwing are really large and don't seem to hook in as nicely, plus I hate the damage that happens to hook keepers cosmetically over time (checking at the feet, nicks and scrapes, etc....)
If the "spine" consideration is academic, what's to say others aren't also? When investing in a "build-up", I give myself ZERO tolerance for laxity; what I produce is the very best that I'm capable of producing. To be indifferent to such considerations as "spline" is NOT my practice. Others may disagree but that's MY policy and practice. SuperDave
I wouldn't say that building on straightest axis is lax in any way shape or form. You still need to sight each portion, then put it together and make sure that you're marks make a rod that straight and true. To do it right is just as involved as spining a rod With that said, building a rod on the spine is just fine, it doesn't hurt anything, but in general I feel that the cosemtics of a rod being straight outweigh the benefits of spining... Finally, in no way shape or form and I suggesting that you shouldn't put your best work forward. When I build rods I too really try to put the screws down and make sure it's the best. You can't imagine how many wraps have been done and then redone just because they didn't look "just right"... With that said, I've got the distinct feeling you do the same too ptyd
you will like the cabelas ft. i have built several of them and it is one of my favorite rods to fish. as far as the spine, there are 2, one is smaller then the other. you can put the guides on either spine, one will give the rod a faster action and the other a little softer action, i can't remember which. i always put my guides on the bigger spine, i think this is the one that gives it a faster action. i assume that you know how to find the spines.
IMO, action is a function of rod design compsition rather than the placement of the spine and guides. A "fast" rod will be "fast" no matter where the spine and guides are placed. SuperDave
I go opposite the spine/spline and am meticulous about finding it. In other words I place the guides on the side the blank flexes most. Some blanks have 2 spines that flex about equally...in which case i don't think it matters. I figure (maybe wrongly) that this will help with good tracking and tippet protection and limit the flex on backcast. Check out winston's website, they have a video on how they make their rods, and this is how they do it. Doing it on its spline/spine has its proponents too......more backbone when fighting a fish and stiffer hookset. This is the theory, anyway. Depends on what you want. Whatever you do, take pride in your work!
