SRC Fishing Slowing Down

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Roger Stephens, Nov 10, 2005.

  1. gt

    gt Active Member

    appreciate the model descriptions. as with all things in nature which end up interacting with you and me, we have no way of determining a confidence interval for results from studies such as these.

    we have no information regarding the method of angling; time the fish may have been out of the water for a photo; degree of body slim removed during handling/neting; apparent concern by the angler for the fishes well being.......

    any information coming from these sorts of attempts, while interesting, should be kept at arms length when discussing 'real' mortality. we simply don't know nor will we ever be able to determine what happened to that fish we released.

    that is why i suggested we all practice the utmost care when we fish and modifiy our tactics to help with this mortality issue. that said, i still could not claim that the last steelhead i released after a quick fight, no blood, no touching, lip hooked, survived. we will just never know.
     
  2. cascade kid

    cascade kid New Member

    I had an interesting and sad experience happen to me quite a few years back.

    While shore fishing an estuary in the South Sound I felt something alive bump into my calf. Startled, I looked down to see it was a good sized fish-- a gorgeous coho salmon in prime condition. She was just sort of floundering around, what was wrong with her? I tried my best to revive the fish, but after a protracted effort had to give up as it slowly died. I inspected the fish carefully for injuries, and only found one-- a very small hook prick in the very corner of her mouth-- exactly what you would think would be the most benign place. I elected to take the fish home, and when I opened it up there was not one drop of blood in her body.

    It clearly doesn't take much to kill a fish. 10% mortality may seem high to some people, but nobody really knows what happens after a fish disappears back into the water. My guess is that if you see any quantity of blood flowing out of a fish it is going to probably die.

    People should show restraint, and not brag about catching dozens of fish in a day. No one cares anyway. Catch a modest number then do something else. Grab your coffee thermos or your camera or your binoculars. Try another method.

    There is some great perspective in Bob Arnold's book "Steelhead Water" where he talks about his regret of keeping his first 20 pound steelhead to show off to his friends. To paraphrase, he talks about all killing being serious or "wrong", but the killing we do for food to be "less wrong". Give it a read if you see it. Catch and release has its place, but it is not close to a panacea, and restraint must accompany it. Lets limit our kill.

    Thanks,
    James
     
  3. cascade kid

    cascade kid New Member

  4. Bob Triggs

    Bob Triggs Your Preferred Olympic Peninsula Fly Fishing Guide

    Les,

    I would fully support an annual/seasonal (winter) closure on Sea-Run Coastal Cutthroat Trout in the saltwater.

    I would also like to see more protections for them in freshwater, as I think it is ludicrous to have a harvest moratorium on saltwater Cutthroat runs and then to allow people to target them, (for harvest), in the rivers, where they may be at a more vulnerable point in life.
     
  5. Jeff Wood

    Jeff Wood New Member

    One of things I really like about fishing the salt in the winter is it gives me an option when my favorite rivers are not fishing as well (or the pass is unpassable). Plus it is a great change of pace. I was wondering why we should lay off fishing for Sea Runs now vs. some other time of the year?
     
  6. gigharborflyfisher

    gigharborflyfisher Native Trout Hunter

    I really see no reason to stop fishing for cutts in the winter. It is like telling people not to fish for steelhead in the winter or salmon in the fall. They seem to be quite plentiful and as long as they are handled properly there is little damage being done (ie small hooks and minimum handling). Also even when not targeting cutts and going after resident coho you are bound to run into a few cutts here and there, and some times a lot more cutts than the coho.
     
  7. Les Johnson

    Les Johnson Les Johnson

    Folks are just airing ideas and personal thoughts here. Backing off our fishing pressure just a bit might do a great deal of good for the cutthroat. I've never said we should not fish for them. I would favor a couple of months of sanctuary for them though and when an area is closed to salmon, it might be worth investigating a closure on cutthroat during the same period. However, if we can develop a measure of self control and limit our fishing, even catch-and-release, we may be able to keep fishing with no additional mortality on cutthroat, or salmon for that matter. I've been fishing for cutthroat for sixty years and plan to continue until I pass on into that great gravelly beach in the sky.

    I guess I feel that it is up to us to save the cutthroat for this and future generations. That is one reason I've written so much about my favorite trout. By getting the spotlight on it there is a tendency not only to want to catch it, but to defend it. The cutthroat needs both. Threads like this one will help.

    How does everyone feel about assigning a cutthroat stamp that must be purchased with your annual license? The revenue could be divvied up between the states and BC for studies, habitat restoration and enforcement. For non-residents it could be fairly pricey as far as I'm concerned.
    Good Fishing,
    Les Johnson
     
  8. salt dog

    salt dog card shark

    SRC are one of the most enigmatic andronomous fish in existence. I would gladly pay to play in a heart beat, especially if the cost for an out of state stamp was high.

    Equally important, I would like to see at least a temporary moratorium on harvest of freshwater coastal cutthroats. More, and larger, spawners would mean an incredible rebound for the species, to help offset the permanent loss of habit widespread throughout the Puget Sound.
     
  9. Mike Etgen

    Mike Etgen Not Quite A Luddite, But Can See One From Here

    A special stamp for cutthroat?

    It would be a privilege.
     
  10. Wayne Chan

    Wayne Chan Member

    Hooking mortality aside, is there any concern with hatchery coho competing with wild cutthroat in the salt?
     
  11. martyg

    martyg Active Member

    Totally into a stamp, as long as those faulkers make sure that the money truly goes where is should and not into someone's pocket or to develop a waterfront park like Doc's has become.

    Pave the road and it is over.
     
  12. Jim Kerr

    Jim Kerr Active Member

    I think a stamp is a great idea, but I am not sure it should be issued by the state. The beauty of the cutthroat fishery is that there are virtually no commercial, tribal, or gear fishing interests to contend with. If fly fishers got really active we could do allot. However in the past with salmon and steelhead management angler involvement has from time to time led to some horrendous errors. What about using a voluntary stamp to help fund some starving grad students to do the research we need so we can make correct and informed decisions. Maybe if the stamp ran $100.00 bucks or so and with purchase you got some benefits?. I bet I could sell 10.
    My objection to involving the state is I don’t have a lot of faith in there level of fiscal responsibility with cash money ear-marked cutthroat…I would feel much more comfortable dealing with some respected non profits.
    What I am suggesting is the stamp to raise seed money to perhaps be added to private grants to really get something started. We have the last fishable population of coastal cutthroat in the lower forty-eight in our backyards, what’s that worth?
    Jim
     
  13. Jeff Wood

    Jeff Wood New Member

    Thanks for your insight Les. I was just wondering what time of the year would be the best to lay off the SRC's. I am all for a stamp to be dedicated to this fantastic fishery.
     
  14. gt

    gt Active Member

    if someone could come up with the panacia pill i would buy cases. there is no solution to protesting SRCs or any other fishes. this is the age we live in.

    consider the WFW group still advocating for wild steelhead kill; consider no guaranteed access below mean high tide; consider collapsed runs of virtually of our anadromous fishes; consider court involvement to force NOAA to reverse on PS orcas; consider global warming (yes it's happening); consider the change in the mining act to give away OUR public lands;..........

    this list is long, gloomy and hard to get your arms around. a conservation stamp for a specific unstudied noncommercially valuable species isn't going to produce the intended result.

    until or unless WE put people in policy positions who understand that protecting this planet is a top priority, nothing, and i mean nothing, is going to slow or stop the depletion of all of earths resources, including the SRC.
     
  15. gt

    gt Active Member

  16. Mike Etgen

    Mike Etgen Not Quite A Luddite, But Can See One From Here

    gt...

    Only speaking for myself here, but I want to clarify that my willingness to support the SRC fishery with an additional stamp was a yes vote on the concept as Mr. Johnson expressed it. There were no details, so to speak, and I'm not one who blindly throws money at a problem or a cause without asking a few questions or at least knowing more of the details, so I think your lecture is a little premature to say the least.

    As a concept, yes, I'd gladly purchase an additional stamp to support a valid program to better research, devise and develop a recovered or enhanced SRC fishery. In fact, I'll repeat my earlier sentiment and say I would consider it an honor to do so. I bet you would too.

    Would I just "mail it in" to a any individual or organization that "promised" to take care of the SRC fishery for us? No more quickly than I'd mail it in to you.

    I might agree with your overall assessment of WDFW motivations and agendas, and wish to see some of the same changes, but I still buy my license every year, hoping that at least some of it supports my sportfishing priorities. Until an "opt-out" checklist is developed, that's all I can do as far as directing my licensing money.

    As a concept, I will say I'd love to have that same "opt-out" privilege applied to how my federal tax money is spent, too. But in practice, I don't see that happening in the near future. Still, I support the concept of supporting the efforts of the federal government to protect and serve the citizens, even as I recognize it's not always done my way or to my direct benefit.

    Peace.
     
  17. gt

    gt Active Member

    mike, i try and work as hard as i can to influence my elected officials. of course that is swimming uphill most of the time, but they hear from me very often. IF and that is a very large IF, a targetted program were established and supported by a conservation stamp, of course i would purchase such a stamp. but the reality is, and it's a bitter pill to swallow, that is not reality in this decade, and that is my only point.

    i should have also pointed to the august 12, 2005 NOAA habitat rule change for NINETEEN stocks of salmon in the PNW. this is the exact political crap that pervades fisheries management. this is not listening to science, it is listening to the national association of home builders lobby.

    if we are serious about the SRC or any other anadramous species, the one and only way we are going to have a voice is by forming a PAC with significant financial backing and a very LOUD voice.
     
  18. Bob Triggs

    Bob Triggs Your Preferred Olympic Peninsula Fly Fishing Guide

    Washington does have a sportsfishing PAC; and it is seeded with industry insiders and others whom promote harvest to support retail sales.:rofl:
     
  19. gt

    gt Active Member

    not surprising bob. goes a long way to explaining the wild steelhead kill ruling's. should also go as no surpise that the regional head of NOAA is also a current board member of the bonneville power administration or that the lawyer who wrote the august 12th ruling is a former lobbyist for the timber industry.

    the real question here under the guise of this thread is how do WE take the high ground?

    the podium is now open to all speakers.............
     
  20. tyler

    tyler Member

    good thread. nice to see a departure from the "take-no-prisoners," "rip-some-lips" attitude that seems to have permeated our sport of late.

    having seen first hand the demise of a popular game fish species and what good fisheries management can do to revive it, i'm all for more stringent restrictions on SRC, steelhead, salmon, etc...

    t