Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by IveofIone, Nov 21, 2008.
fair enough kent. so how about a link with a brief interpretation by the poster
Some thoughts on sashjo's post. As Taxpayers over the years we have paid far more than the Detroit 'bailout' would ever cost us. We have paid for million dollar toilets, thousand dollar hammers, given millions to study snail slime and the mating habits of exotic insects, propped up despotic regimes in countries that we have never heard of and the always popular-Bridge to Nowhere. The amount of pork appropriated over the years for useless or near useless projects is simply staggering. Much of that money is spent not on the good of the country but instead on local or very regional projects that provide busy work but all too often have no lasting effects on the infrastructure. And sadly an awful lot of it goes into the pockets of cronies that supported the sponsoring politician.
I am not in favor of handing Detroit a blank check by any means even though it is tiny compared to what has already been doled out to the banks. We need those industries long term and need to get past the negative sound bites and piling-on rhetoric that seems to dominate the discussion at this point. We became a great nation through industrial might and we will need to sustain that industrial prowess if we hope to remain competitive in this century. A nation of latte sipping, TV watching mall hoppers living in tract mansions and driving luxury cars must have some support base for their habits going forward. Service jobs or worse-unemployment-won't support much of a lifestyle long term. This is a very small country in terms of population-a tiny percentage of the world's population. We once distinguished ourselves by our productivity and hard work, qualities than more than compensated us for our small size. Today we are seen quite differently around the world as fat and lazy and all too willing to let someone else get their hands dirty on our behalf. It doesn't require much imagination to determine the direction we are headed. Let's start by getting rid of Rick Waggoner and Bob Nardelli and their respective gang of cronies. There are good minds in those companies with great ideas and innovations. But for so long they have been buried in the bureaucratic bowels of the company and subject to cliques and kingdom building power struggles. Give their ideas the light of day and some lucid management and they will work wonders.
The ..."we don't reward failure"... comment was certainly made clear in the last election.
But "we are capitalist not socialist" is a bit less clear. Certainly we were capitalist in the 19th century when the Robber Barons and Railroad Magnates held the workers of this country hostage. People were literally worked to death in dangerous factories putting in long hours for little pay and often with their children working at their side. Those conditions were deplorable yet many of the products we buy today are built under similar conditions. The guys at the top made incredible fortunes while the rest floundered in what became a mostly two-tiered system. Sounds familiar doesn't it? Back then we became 'socialistic' when we established labor unions and gradually tilted the playing field back towards level and gave the working man a chance. Those of us that have worked our entire lives in far more agreeable work situations do it on the backs of those long suffering workers that fought and often died for the conditions we have now. Another 'socialist' program must have been Social Security-the most successful government program in the history of this country. It has been a life saver for millions of Americans. Health care is another subject that often has a 'socialist' tag attached to it. You can write your own will depending on which side of this issue you weigh in on. So yeah, we have some socialist tendencies but that is probably a good thing. The sooner we get past this "I've got mine-screw you" mentality and start realizing that we will either succeed or fail together as a country the earlier we can start functioning as the 'united states' again.
So shit can the management that has so underperformed and keep the R&D alive, keep the industry intact, spare the workers who have only been building what they were told to.They can build world class just as easy as they can do average providing they have world class management. And finally, save all of those CNC machines and robots. Some of our new production lines are by far the best in the world. Should our industry go tits up those will immediately be snapped up by the Chinese and their industry which is currently decades behind us will leapfrog ahead in less than 5 years. We will need that manufacturing capacity and more in years to come. We actually need to dis-incentive-ize manufacturing overseas at this point and make giving away American jobs for high executive salaries much less desirable than it is now. Don't forget the lessons of Pearl Harbor just because you didn't live through it.
I am tired of hearing "Don't forget the lessons of Pearl Harbor just because you didn't live through it" or something like that. We still have plenty of manufacturing capacity in this country it is just that the well run part of it is owned by Toyota, BMW et al. The capacity has not gone away, it is just managed better - at the executive level - by foreigners. If we really needed the manufacturing base for a war or some other emergency we have it and would expropriate it for the national interest. Which is what we did in WWII - you don't think Detroit voluntarily gave up manufacturing cars? They still got their profits.
Rich, that is the second time I have seen et al (or et alia) used correctly on the internet since I started guiding fly fishing.. You aren't guilty of this but it cracks me up to see people trying really hard to talk above their brain's vocabulary..
I think that if we as a race tire of remembering history, then we are in deep shit in the future. It is more financially viable to learn from other peoples previous mistakes than the have to wade through the problem yourself...
"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it."
- George Santayana
(Also known as the Aphorism on Repetitive Consequences from 'Reason in Common Sense', the first volume of his 'The Life of Reason'.)
This thread is beginning to look like the "Politics! Discussion & Debate" forum over at Gamefishin dot com. Lot of right wing copy and paste and then the liberals chime in and it all becomes a bash fest. Great fun for those with thick skins!
Big picture: To call SS a success may be premature. I know that I will never see a penny. The SS program and medicare are UNFUNDED liabilities. $330K(and rising) for every person in this country! Plus Uncle Sam is broke. When one is broke, you don't assume more liabilities. Let the autos go BK before the country does.