Discussion in 'Watercraft' started by cmann886, Dec 20, 2013.
Cool, must be a different plastic. Still going to have a metal piece made for my boat.
Cool, sounds like you are aware of what you are doing.
But isn't that like putting a penny in the fuse box from days gone by? I don't really know the answer here, but want all of us to be safe out there.
Yeah I would agree with you about it being a fuse point. I've ran the various rivers on my Renegade and am fairly gentle on it. It was a tough run when I broke it on the Madison without a spare oar mount. Then the 2nd time around was sheer plastic failure on the Bighorn, an easy row. I believe it was from the plastic getting baked in the sun. My 2 failures happened a little too easy for my preferences.
Good observations and comments. I am considering getting a frameless boat. I have a Fat Cat and a Outcast 8' framed pontoon. I "think I would like some a little bigger than the Fat Cat. We will be buying a 5th wheel in the spring and It would be nice to have a boat that I can deflate and store easily.
The problem is there are some good choices out there and I am still not sure which one to get.
I received the 2014 outcast catalog in the mail yesterday. This looks like a nice unit---I am very interested in how it tracks with fins...I would much prefer spending most of my floating time fishing than rowing and constantly correcting position. If anyone test drives this unit, please add to this post and let us know how it handles.
It is getting closer to spring now---any more thoughts on what to get?
Looks like the Stealth Pro is a very close copy of the Renegade, except the Stealth has bladders. That's why it's 8 pounds heavier and even though they use Urethane, they still are bladders. Ok for some people, but having a choice, myself and 100% of my friends would go bladderless. ONE thing about the pads for the oar mounts: they are WELDED. Waterstrider, Watermaster, NFO, and I am quite sure Outcast.... all welded, just like the seams and most of the D-rings[not all, but most]. I'm tired of the village idiot saying they are glued. I have only been fishing out of frameless boats the last 12 years along with the majority of my partners and we have never had issues with the cheap stock oars or mounts. One time a buddy stuck the downstream oar in fast shallow water....the oar didn't snap until it had raised the boat almost out of the water....wish we had a video of that! I can see how the pin or the plastic/rubber could break, but it makes me wonder if it hadn't been damaged earlier...possibly when it was cold and was struck by a boulder or the bed of a pickup?? Or it was a manufacturing issue, it happens. By design of a frameless boat, when you pull hard on an oar, much of the pressure is absorbed by the raft itself, which relieves pressure on the pin and the bracket. Also why a frameless boat isn't as efficient as a framed craft.
The oars break due to user error, not boat error. If you use them properly, they won't break. A lot of people struggle with taking responsibility, so they'd rather blame a boat to make themselves feel better.
Im guessing you work for a company who makes oars? Only reason I can come up with for making such a ridiculous black and white statement
I think for the most part, it is user error. However, a lot of people get into situations where they expect an 'entry' level oar to not break...pushing off a rock or a pull in shallow water...something like that. The cheaper oars I got on my first Waterstrider, I did not think they would survive, but except for many scrapes on the oar blades, they were fine. BUT, I never got into class 3-4 water, and if I ever was going to I would definately upgrade. This is a fishing site, where we have some interest in white water rafts, but most of us [I think] want a pleasant float and lots of fish. I do know that the rafts I have had or do own, will never get close to what they are capable of.....I believe thats true for the vast majority of members on this board.
I work in finance.
You've had an oar break from proper use during a water stroke? Every oar break I've seen involves someone having hit a rock or something along those lines.
I am not a great oarsman on technical water. There are individuals on this site who can attest to that. I made a conscious choice to upgrade my oars despite the fact I will never see Class 3 water or above. I am prone to user error, or will at least assume so. I have never broken an oar, but I have abused them. I believe that cheaper oars would have broken in a couple of those circumstances.
As a side note... I also abused my leg in a kick boat early on as well. Feeling that impact on your leg, is a lesson never forgotten. I hate being educated by near misses, but sometimes that is the way it goes. Despite all your preparation, and advice and training from others, there is always a certain amount of ignorance to overcome.
Whether the oars break due to user error, rock error, or divine intervention where a lightning bolt comes from the sky and directly hits your oar, the bottom line is this - if you're floating rivers it's inevitable that you could break an oar. Sometimes that spot you thought was safe to take a stroke isn't, your oar digs in, gets bent a certain way and bam, the blade breaks. This is where having a FRAMED boat gives you more room for error as the oar lock systems (horn style or pin & clip) used on them allow oars that catch on the bottom of the river to push through and out so they do not jar the craft or compromise your position in a rapid, and in a lot of cases it might allow you to save your oar as well. On a frameless your oar doesn't have anywhere to go so your craft could become jarred violently, or cause some type of failure either breaking the oar, breaking the oar pad off the PVC, or breaking the Pin right off the oar pad itself. Just speculating here, but the fact your oar does not have anywhere to go like on a framed craft oar system, could cause that oar to dig in deeper and guarantee some type of failure as your craft's weight works against it.
The Commander and Stealth are interesting boats. If you could get the weight down to something that is reasonably packable for a few miles I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. If it has to be hauled to the river anyway, I would prefer a frame.
Anyone use the Stealth or commander on moving water with fins? How well do they track and how difficult is it to fish while drifting in them?
Would waist-high waders be sufficient for the Stealth Pro, or would I need to get chest highs? Much prefer the comfort of a pant wader, but not if water's likely to come above my waist.
waist waders are fine. Only below the knee is in the water on my stealth pro. I do recommend buying the extra scotty glue on mount pads. Thats the ones outcast uses to slide in the slots for the gear system, It only comes with 2. Obviously you dont have to glue them but be sure to buy the, scotty mound hardware because none of the accesories come with it. I have to buy 4 sets of hardware. You could go to lowes or something I suppose as well.
I agree with Thomas. @ 210 # I only get wet to the knees, although I only used mine in Stillwater.
When I floated the Sky from Ben Howard down, I was glad I had full waders even though it was a tame but sometimes splashy float.