Steelhead:Nymphing or Swinging

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by McQ, Feb 7, 2008.

  1. jbuehler - not sure your point. I've caught a ton of salmon and some steelhead using a float and jig. It's how I get my kids and other newbies into their first salmon\steelhead every year.

    Marty and others - I'm very familiar witht the common definition of 'fly fishing' and don't have an issue with it. Though I don't really think the traditions and history amount up to a hill of beans unless you are just into that sort of thing.

    My point had nothing to do with the definition. Those guys using slinkies that day might be long time fly fishers based on the standard definition. But perhaps a few times here and there they try something different and use their fly rods to fish, knowing it really isn't fly fishing. And yet they don't lose sleep over it or worry that some fly fishing guide (or some purist and traditionalist) on the cowlitz or up in alsaska is laughing at them.
  2. There ya go, if you don’t care about the tradition and history of fly fishing then the integrity of the definition would not matter either. Fly fishing can be what ever you want to make it. If you want to call back bouncing a green butt skunk tip with shrimp “fly fishing”, more power. I will always come back to the progression rule. Everyone that picks up a fly rod goes through a progression. For some it will turn into a life long passion and for others it will turn into a hobby that fades like the setting sun. If you think fly fishing is a more productive way to catch fish, you are mistaken. It’s all about the challenge. It’s hard, you have to develop skills, you have to study and learn. I have all kinds of respect for the guys of old that made fly fishing their passion. Because of that passion we have breathable waders, carbon fiber rods, plastic coated fly lines and so on. The history of fly fishing is dynamic I will give you that but it is still based on the cast. That’s what fly fishing is to me. Make it what ever you want, call it what ever you want but remember fly fishing has been well defined and there is no changing that.

    If you can cast it with the weight of the line it does not matter if it is a dry fly, wet fly, nymph or streamer, you are fly fishing.
  3. In reality, I bet they don't lose sleep over it either (and neither do I), because they simply don't know any better and hence the discussion of this topic. But the example I gave does point out that fly fishing is often loosely interpreted/defined, and for them and maybe you, backtrolling a k-14 is "fly fishing". In reality, I don't care what they or you do when you're out "fly fishing". But the line between fly fishing and gear fishing seems to be exceedingly thin when discussed by people who are very new or not very knowledgable about the sport.

    But on to your other point, damn those fly fishing purists/tradritionalists (heavy on sarcasm here), like Bill McMillan, A.H.E. Wood, Lefty Kreh, Syd Glasso, Ernest Bradner, Poly Rosborough, Roderick Haig Brown, Trey Combs, Lee Wulff etc.,...what they've contributed, hasn't amounted to, as you say, "a hill of beans"...unlike the rantings of some guy that caught his first steelhead just a couple of years ago or so...Be the guide...
  4. Not really. Fly fishing is defined in many places. Some places define it in the fishing regulations. You can find a definition in the dictionary. You can find the definition on the web in thousands of places. You can find in a shop or from a guide or from your neighbor or in a magazine or book.

    I think if you did a poll on this site, 99% of us would agree on the basic definition of fly fishing: Fly Rod + Fly Reel + Fly combined with a form of casting where the line is used as the primary weight for delivering the fly to the destination. Just off the top of my head. May need some tweaking...

    But does that mean we are stuck fishing according to the definition at all times or do we have the freedom to vary and try new things from time to time, even if it isn't technically "fly fishing" according to the basic definition?
  5. Look, why should I care if some random group of guys use their fly rods to lob slinkies along with their fly into a river. Why should I care if they go home and tells their wife’s and their other friends how good of a flyfisherman they are.

    It’s not that important to me....and I am sure it’s not that important to them either.

    If they aren’t breaking the law or harming the resource then why is it any of my business what they do or tell people.

    In general, I agree with the definition of flyfishing….

    But not all people are as passionate about flyfishing as some of us on the forum…and I for one am absolutely ok with that.

    Like I said before, if a person isn’t breaking the law or harming the resource ….why should I have a problem???

    As for progression…… I can’t imagine myself ever getting out of the big fish phase.
  6. "passionate about flyfishing" comes in many shapes and forms... Same with "progression". My story of fishing with my dad before I could walk and eventually catching my first fly caught fish as a teanager is my own story and progression. My passion for fishing is life long. Fly fishing is one aspect of it that I particulary love. But I'm just as passionate about sitting with my boy dunking worms off a dock (and yes, someday I hope we'll by casting flies side by side).

    I won't tell you what your passion and reason for fly fishing should be and I don't look to others to tell me what mine should be.

  7. iagree

    Being innovative is what makes fly fishing great. Fly fishing is so unbelievably rad because there are not set boundaries to it. You can develop your style. Don't develop a definition of fly fishing and what can or cannot be considered under its umbrella.
  8. My take in this thread is that these people should have a closer look at gear fishing if they want to lob lead around.

    It has nothing to do with form, etiquette, or anything like that.

    It has all to do with an easier, more logical, way to dead drift a big hunk of lead and a fly (jig or whatever) deep.

    Trying to teach some people that it can be just as fun, even more succesful, and is NOT a lower form of fishing.

    Why would you want to cast all that junk on a fly rod? It feels like hell and it doesn't fish right for more than a 5 foot drift.

    Again, I prefer the swing and the tug is the drug for me, I am ALL ABOUT THAT. I just find it amazing, the numbers of fly guys I see attempting to cast crazy amounts of crap with their fly rods. I see them every day on the water and I want to help them understand it is rather foolish what they are doing and unnecessary.

    As for nymphing with a tiny nymph dropper or a tiny indicator for trout, that is all different to me. I am talking about the nymphing for winter steelhead tactics I have seen: floats (even balloons!), flies (essentially jigs with those huge dumbells), and split shot (not the micro shot, the real deal).
  9. Buehler, I think people get your point. I know I do, and wouldn't mind at least giving the gear thing a try someday. Maybe, anyways.
    But do you realize, that swinging can be done much more effectively with spoons? By your argument, you should put down the spey and switch it up to spoons. Not that I want you to; I want you to fish however you want to fish.

    As for what is and what is not flyfishing, jesus people, give it a rest already.
    It is what it is for whomever says what they say it is.
  10. I disagree.

    I have swung and Swung and SWUNG spoons for steelhead and just seem to hookup more on my fly outfit when swinging.

    I do really believe the way a well swung fly swims naturally is a HUGE part as to the method's effectiveness.

    I think it has to do with the line and fairly unweighted (feathers catching currents et cetera) fly swimming in the current rather than sinking or dangling.

    BTW your point is not logically a counterpoint to mine because, as far as I know, nobody casts a spoon on a fly rod....yet.

    As I am sure you know, what I have been talking about is people casting a strike indicator (float), weighted fly (jig), and sinker on a fly rod.
  11. Did you take it upon yourself to educate and stop them from practicing their foolish ways?
  12. :confused:

    Dude... Never mind. The horse ain't getting up.
  13. Doing a little of that in this thread as you can see.

    I guess people would rather cast a bunch of weight with a noodle.

    I will let it lay I guess.

    Anyone who wants to know how to rig up a float rod PM me.


    P.S. Here my plan this week: I am going to get my halibut rod, attach a Hardy Marquis, throw an SI full floater on there, attach a spoon below a side planer, and snap T it all of 10 feet to some pocket water and call it fly fishing.

    Oh and next week: Fly fishing with downriggers.
  14. so tempting to post... but must resist urge. soooo tempting.
  15. Why is it that when steelhead nymphing is brought up, folks automatically assume that indicators and heavy lead are used?

    And why is it that when swinging is brought up, folks start to squeak about tradition and history?

    Some folks jus' need to fish more, I guess.

    For those that swing and bitch, here is one of your Deities chatting about fishing spoons on his two hander, among other things...Ed and Fishing.

    Long rivers with many different types of water CANNOT BE COVERED IN THEIR ENTIRETY BY JUST ONE OR EVEN TWO METHODS.

    Y'all need to just be happy there are fish to fish for, have fun catchin' them, and quit steppin' on each others dicks.

    IMHO, and yes, YMMV,
  16. I stand corrected :eek:

    I guess fly fishing/gear difference at all.
  17. I agree with Ringlee. Be confident in your own endeavors, worry less about other people and what they're doing. Where does the bitterness come from? Think about that before attacking other people.

    If they're having a good time, isn't that what it's about?

    perhaps a little less time typing in the forum and more time trying to be more accepting.

    Good times... no wonder fly fisherman are seen as elitist and snobby, because of people like McQ. give it a rest...
  18. I agree but I have to bring up an irony about this stuff as I percieve it:

    Isn't the fact that there are all these people that refuse to pick up anything but a fly rod to fish in and of itself elitist?

    That is why I feel the guys casting gear on fly rods are the ones that are elitist, because they want to catch something on the fly rod and only on the fly rod for whatever gains the medium of the fly rod provides, whatever those may be. I base this statement on the common belief that fly fishing is a self imposed handicap.

    I personally feel that if more fly junkies picked up a gear rod every now and than it would ease a lot of the tentions in our fishing community between gear guys and fly guys and serve as an eye opener for BOTH.

    I suppose that is the underlying reason for my continuing the beating of the dead horse in this thread; I have met so many fly junkies with no experience using any other method other than fly rods. While there is nothing inherantly wrong with this, I think it leads to all sorts of confusion and condescention, that in turn, gives us all the elitist image.
  19. you sir, are a true master of prose. i couldn't make up the stuff you post.

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