Stoeger Condor...not happy!

Discussion in 'Cast & Blast' started by andrew, Oct 29, 2007.

  1. andrew Active Member

    Posts: 1,110
    Bellingham, WA.
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    I've always wanted an over / under, however, due to high prices and limited spending money I wrote the idea off until a few weeks ago I came across an ad for an o/u for less than 300 brand new! I jumped at the link which brought me to Able Ammo, who was selling a gun by the name of Stoeger for 299.00. I did some research and most of what I found was positive with comments such as: "gun works great...but it's no Browning"...the only negative comments found where mostly about the fixed barrels on some models, no barrel selection, and the overall appearance (no engraving, nickel, etc.). However I could live without chokes, engraving, and the fancy stuff...I just wanted an o/u that wouldn't break up my "happy home"!

    So I bought it...I get it...I go out hunting with...Libby flushes a bird...I hit tail feathers...I pull the trigger NOTHING! WTF! I unload the gun, close the action, safety off, squeeze the trigger, lower barrel hammer drops, I release the trigger, squeeze again....nothing.

    Needless to say I Googled "Stoeger Condor shooting problems" and come across a 'few' unhappy people with very similar tales of malfunctioning. I've shipped the gun back to Benelli USA (another reason why I thought I couldn't go wrong even though I was not familar with Stoeger)...so now I'm waiting...waiting which most likely will bring my gun back to me after hunting season.

    So until I get my gun back I'm spreading nothing but poor ratings about Stoeger and its counterparts across the world wide web!

    Andrew
  2. Josh Benjamin New Member

    Posts: 985
    duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    i wouldn't think you should expect the 2nd barrel to shoot without an actual shot going off. i'm sure it has a technical name, but i believe that the switch to the 2nd shot is recoil activated.
    2nd...everything has problems regardless of how much something costs. if there's something wrong, get it fixed, take it back, whatever. stuff happens.
    you bought a $300.00 over and under. why would you spread bad things about them before you give them the opportunity to fix it?
  3. andrew Active Member

    Posts: 1,110
    Bellingham, WA.
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    Josh,

    Had I not read posts written 3-4 years ago explaining the exact same problems I would be more understanding and give them the benefit of doubt. However, I unfortunately came across this after I purchased the gun and feel that they have not responded to a design flaw, and continue to sell the same design with the reoccuring malfunction; which in my mind is bad business ethics...much like the Ford Pinto (Ford thought it would be cheaper to settle rather than recall and install a two dollar plastic part protecting the gas tank from the rear differential bolts), but nobody is trapped in an exploding car.

    The gun is all mechanical, it does not require the recoil energy to cock the hammer for the second barrel. The barrel(s) re-cock when the gun is 'broke' to reload. The trigger has a "stepped" action, when the first barrel is fired the hammer drops via a piece of metal pushed up by the trigger, this piece "should" drop out of the way of the trigger which allows for the stepped trigger to align with the other hammer.

    I agree 300 is nothing in the relm of guns, however, I am now into the gun for more money due to shipping back to Maryland, and if I chose to return the gun I'm out even more money for restocking and shipping once more.

    The gist of it...Stoeger/Benelli/Baretta know there is a problem and have not addressed it, yet they continue to sell their merchandise with this knowledge.
  4. Josh Benjamin New Member

    Posts: 985
    duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    sure didn't mean to come across like an a-hole.
    sounds like they have a fix for the issue, and most of the newer guns coming off the line have the new part installed. maybe wherever you bought it had a big stock of older production guns which had the old part...here's what i found regarding it...sounds like it's an issue with the safety.

    "trigger saftey group problems. the sadftey would engauge before the second shot. it was easy to fix just a part stamped wrong. stoeger is getting faily fast fixing it under warrenty. the report of the problem is decreasing. as newer constuction guns filter in with the updated part.

    the comp being newer will prolly not have it.

    other then that exspect common inexpensive gun problem bad wood, weak finish, loose fits on forearm. and such. "

    2 of my friends own them and speak very highly of what they are for the money. i'd get the gun back, fixed, and judging by the soudns of it, the problem will be fixed and no longer an issue.
  5. andrew Active Member

    Posts: 1,110
    Bellingham, WA.
    Ratings: +15 / 0

    Josh,

    No offense taken...and hopefully I did not either. After reading your first post I realized I missed a my point.

    I'm grateful you did some research cause I only found posts or reports of years past with bad customer service, long waits, and still no fix. So your post does restore some hope, but like you say I will have to wait.

    Again I liked what I saw for 300, however, looks don't kill a bird!

    Seriously thanks...I've been stewing about this for the past two days.

    Andrew
  6. Tim Garton Member

    Posts: 301
    Marysville, upper left corner
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Any idea when your gun was made? I bought a pistol a couple years back because it was new and it was a great deal. Later, I found out it was a great deal because it was rejected by the LEO department who had ordered the original batch and the rejects were sold cheap on the open market. For good reason (design safety flaw). Could be something similar where someone unloaded (to use a pun) a bunch of guns cheap rather than get them fixed. Or, I could be totally full of...
  7. Itchy Dog Some call me Kirk Werner

    Posts: 3,682
    Doo-vall
    Ratings: +261 / 0
    Maybe I missed something, but if this was a brand new gun, with a known problem which the manufacturer is aware of and has a fix for, I'd demand (diplomatically) that they pay for shipping both ways.
  8. North Sounder New Member

    Posts: 23
    Hansville, Wa
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Hi Andrew,

    If you have not found it yet you might want to check out the Stoeger fourm at shotgunworld.com . Go to the I love my... and scroll down. I used this fourm to research my first O/U
    and found it to be a great resource. I also could not afford one of the B guns and went with a sweet little Verona 20ga for under 600.
    Good luck and good huntin.
    Tom
  9. andrew Active Member

    Posts: 1,110
    Bellingham, WA.
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    Thought I'd finish the "saga"...

    Well exactly one month later and my shotgun showed up at work during lunch time...I wasted no time and made a run for 'Plantation Range'!

    I picked up my wife...somebody has to push the buttom on the thrower!...and a box of shells (making sure they were high base shells since that was what I was told could be the problem by customer service).

    Moment of truth...first barrel fires...second barrel fires! I must say I was very nervous since I had read many posts / blogs from people that were not happy and given a run around by customer service. Finished off 22 more shells without a problem and even let my wife shoot the last shell (first time ever shooting a gun)!

    In the end I'm still happy with my purchase, the gun fires nicely...does have a decent kick for a 16 ga., but then again I'm use to a heavy auto.
  10. Kaari White Member

    Posts: 819
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +24 / 0
    Andrew, that's great!! I have a friend with a 12g Rugar Red Label that has a similar issue- it does not like firing crappy trap loads. He doesn't mind, though- the gun only cost him $20 (he won it at a pheasants forever auction...lucky dog).
  11. Gary Thompson dirty dog

    Posts: 3,856
    East Wenatchee, WA
    Ratings: +106 / 0
    I've been following this with some interest because I'm thinking of buying a lighter shot gun.
    I shoot an 870 and it works great, but as I get older and my shoulders ache after a long days upland hunting.
    My good friend bought a 20g Rugar Red label and it about floats compared to the 870.
    I also wanted to comment about cheap trap loads. That's just what they are "cheap" O.K. to use as single shot for clay, but they not to be trusted in the field.
    Andrew, I'm happy to hear your rant was a little premature, and your new shot gun will preform as it should.
  12. Cliff Member

    Posts: 318
    Seattle, WA.
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    This has been an interesting thread. I have a small stable of shotguns and almost all of them are old. I've been hunting with a 16 gauge almost exclusively for the past ten years. I've always thought it was the perfect upland gauge, and most of the guns in that gauge are smaller and lighter than Twelves (but not all). My go-to guns over the past few years are two ancient Model 12's (nickel-steel, pre-1920) and an L.C. Smith SxS 16ga made in 1946. The Model 12's are wonderful, light (built on the 20ga frame), point very well, and have that incredible history. But I find myself toting the Elsie 16ga more often than not. I've grown to prefer the SxS type of action. The trouble is my Elsie is probably around 7.5 lbs (or a little more) and it DOES start to feel heavy later in the day while chukar hunting. So, I've been in the market for a decent 6 lb, 16ga double with english stock, splinter forearm and double triggers. The problem is the cost. I've researched this to death and all of the imported doubles in this configuration are out of my reach, pricewise. I had finally settled on one of the Uggies from Lion Country Supply. They import a nice boxlock double for around $1200-$1400, and by all accounts it's a good shotgun. But even $1200 is steep for me. I was at a local gunshop a couple of weeks ago nosing around and another patron told me about the CZ Bobwhite, which is a turkish double being built for CZ at the Huglu factory in Turkey. My initial impression was, "yeah right". The Huglu guns, and Turkish manufacturing in general, has always had a fairly bad rap. But in researching this shotgun I saw some pretty good press - and some negatives. But the overriding factor is the quality (for the money) of this shotgun is good. There have been issues with the shotgun and supposedly they have been fixed (left barrel not firing, doubling, firing pins breaking). There may be some issues with heavy/stiff triggers on some of the models, and that apparently varies from gun to gun. The good news is that CZ has incredible customer service (according to what I've read) and will replace a shotgun quickly and without hassle.
    The price is around $675 for one in 20ga. I'm going to go look at one this weekend and see how it fits. Here's the link: http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=60

    The point of all of this is that there are options available to upland hunters which don't require a second mortgage on the house. These CZ's, like Andrew's Stoeger, have always been considered low-grade guns, quality wise, but that's not necessarily true anymore. Besides, I'm not a rich guy and the thought of accidentally dropping a $4,000 Spanish double down a rocky canyon while chukar hunting makes me ill.

    Sorry for the ramble....I think sometimes I type long messages just to hear myself "talk".

    Cliff
  13. andrew Active Member

    Posts: 1,110
    Bellingham, WA.
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    The point of all of this is that there are options available to upland hunters which don't require a second mortgage on the house. These CZ's, like Andrew's Stoeger, have always been considered low-grade guns, quality wise, but that's not necessarily true anymore. Besides, I'm not a rich guy and the thought of accidentally dropping a $4,000 Spanish double down a rocky canyon while chukar hunting makes me ill.

    Sorry for the ramble....I think sometimes I type long messages just to hear myself "talk".

    Cliff[/QUOTE]


    Cliff...this is exactly why I bought the condor...price. Of course I knew that I was not going to get a gun that 'awed' the birds to death due to engraving or gnat's ass precision for 300.00. I was naive to think "its a gun with very few operating parts...who could screw that up". But for 33 dollars more for shipping and a little adjusting by their gunsmith I have a working gun that shoots straight, and I'm still not into it for what the suggested retail price is.

    Ironically just now...as I'm typing this my Old Man decides to call and glout that he just purchased a Beretta Ultralight o/u....I don't like rich people...I just like their toys! :clown:
  14. spanishfly Steelberg

    Posts: 1,521
    Issaquah, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    That's what you get for getting a shotgun made in Croatia :clown:

    Remington actually makes an entry level Shotgun (Spartan) for around 5 hundo which has received good reviews. Comes in 410, 12, 20 and 28 guage.

    http://www.impactguns.com/store/047700895604.html
  15. bbqjim New Member

    Posts: 1
    pequot lakes, mn
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    My Stoeger Over/Under was made in Brazil. Stamped right on it very proudly. Where do you get Croatia??? It was also assembled in Maryland U.S.A.
  16. Zack Dudley Take em'

    Posts: 483
    Port Orchard, Washington
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    the sparta is a great gun a my duck huntin buddy uses that gun BUT its not as good as my benelli nova and it costs less :p benelli is AWESOME in my book no problems whatsoever! Glad your gun works now
  17. hap Member

    Posts: 309
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    For the record, single-trigger double guns have one of two systems for enabling the second barrel to fire. Most use the recoil of the first shot to reset a sear and are called "inertia-operated" and the second is mechanical and simply engages the second sear mechanically, regardless the amount of recoil in the first shot.

    The Stoeger was never designed to shoot the second barrel without a shot going off in the first.

    The larger problem with cheap double guns like the Stoeger and the Huglus and many others is the long-term durability and reliability. The actions on the Huglus are not hard enough (I doubt the Stoeger is either, but do not know it for fact) and will fail to lock up properly and will fail to reset if the gun is used heavily.

    The Ruger double barrels will last reasonably well, but anyone that really shoots much will end up with problems with them. They are also about as ugly as any shotgun is allowed to be.

    I have had an FFL for 30 years and have imported a number of Huglus over the years.

    If someone has to have an O/U (which is almost all I shoot for shotguns these days) there are many fantastic older guns out there in the <$1,000 range and often right down to five or six hundred. With the advent of steel shot and choke tubes many shy away from fixed choke guns and the price on solid, reliable, classy guns has dropped.

    Winchester 101 shotguns have barrel steel which Winchester says is 100% acceptable for steel shot use. Buy a fixed choke 101 and have a gunsmith polish the chokes out to Improved Cylinder and Modified. With steel shot it will likely shoot more in the realm of modified and full. Test it on a patterning board with the ammo you intend to shoot. If it is too tight, open it up some more. This is cheap work, not hundreds of dollars.

    Berettas are fine with steel shot also and make some of the finest shotguns going.

    But the real secret is getting a shotgun that fits you well. take a friend's shotgun to the skeet or trap range and see how well you do with it compared to others.

    Browning Clitoris are great shotguns but do not fit me at all. I have three and none are any better for me an a stone. I shoot Berettas and Winchesters fine. Rugers, not so well, but far better than Brownings. Point is, you might shoot a Clitori fine, but suck on 101s...
    art ;)
  18. J.Butch New Member

    Posts: 26
    Bellingham, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    As Andrew knows (because he talked me into it) I just picked up a used (but can't tell) Stoeger Condor Supreme in 12ga. So far, with only two shots fired, I like it! However time will tell...?
  19. jcnewbie Member

    Posts: 855
    Kent, Washington
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Can someone explain to me what all the hype is about shotgun barrels designed for "Steel shot" as opposed to barrels for lead shot? To my knowledge all shotshells (except some slugs and some old-fashioned buckshot loads) have their shot encased in plastic "shot sleeves" and therefore the shot, whether steel OR lead, never touches the barrel at all.....so what's the big deal?

    I ask because I know some guys who wouldn't buy a new (or used) shotgun unless it was Certified & Warenteed, "For steel shot!"

    Jus' askin!:beathead:

    Jc
  20. Mr.E He called me an Elitist ?? LOL ..what a moron

    Posts: 688
    Lakewood,Wa.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    It all has to do with the metallurgy JC. Older guns can't with stand the higher pressures created with all the new powders and the higher pressures needed for steel shot.