Swich Rod for Trout in Montana's big Rivers

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Switch MT, May 4, 2011.

  1. jwg

    jwg Active Member

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    Thanks, useful info.

    These compare with standard ratings:

    AFTM
    5 140 grains
    6 160
    7 185
    8 210
    AFFTA Ratings for Spey Lines(added in edit)
    Columns below are for shooting head, short head spey, midlength spey, and long belly spey Line
    40’ 55’ 65’ 75’
    5 380
    6 250 420 460 600
    7 300 470 510 650
    8 360 530 570 710

    So, let me recap and see if I am getting it.

    6wt Batson/Rainshadow switch rod blanks are rated for single handed casting line.

    So for single handed overhead casting, load with a 6 wt line.

    For two handed casting, load with a line that is 2 or even 3 line weights more. Derek notes he casts a 300 grain line on a 6 wt switch rod.

    So I could expect to be able to two handed cast (if I had the skills) my 5 or 6 wt Airflo 40 plus lines (fast intermediate)
    The 40 plus and 40 plus expert have long tapers. 39/43 feet
    Grainwise, I could perhaps with a poly leader in a faster sink, adding another 30 to 40 grains. Not sure how that would affect the two handed casting.
    Would this be a good line for swinging flies, or nymphing?

    Other options would be the Ambush line, in 8 or 9 wt for two handed casting on my 6 wt switch.
    "Ambush 8 weight (290 grains) will load a 5 weight switch rod, Ambush 9 for a 6wt switch"
    "short 20’-29’ heads are ideal for quick-loading" triangle taper
    http://royalwulff.com/products/ambush-fly-line/
    alleged to be good for swinging flies or nymphing

    Or Airflo Skagit Switch

    RANGE GRAINS HEAD LENGTH
    4/5 360 18.5'
    5/6 390 18.5'
    5/6 420 19.5'
    skagit switch taper

    http://www.rajeffsports.com/skagit_switch.php
    http://www.airflofishing.com/airflo-fly-lines-spey-switch-skagit-switch.cfm
    have to buy a running line to go with the Skagit Switch heads
    this would be mainly for swinging flies

    For nymphing with an indicator, I could use the Airflo Speydicator.
    http://www.airflofishing.com/airflo-fly-lines-spey-spey-speydicator.cfm
    "They all have a short 21 to 23 foot head with a long 12 to 15 foot rear taper. Behind the rear taper is a 25 to 30 foot heavy level mending zone." about a 43 foot head.
    These must be spey line rated:
    4 280 grains
    5 350
    6 420

    Rio Switch Line data added in edit:
    4/5 300 grains (head weight on switch lines is measured at the color change)
    5/6 350
    6/7 410
    Rio Spey Line Recommendations for rods:
    http://www.rioproducts.com/skin/summit/pdf/2013_RIO_Spey_Line_Recs.pdf
    file for older rods, includes the Rainshadow Spey blanks, but not the Rainshadow 10'8" Switch:
    http://www.rioproducts.com/skin/summit/pdf/Old Spey Line Recommendations 2013.pdf

    Finally, on another thread, there was a post stating that a 6 wt switch was strong enough for saltwater fishing pinks, cohos, etc. In this regard, I am thinking it is somewhat uprated as far as fish it can handle, perhaps because the extra length gives you a stouter butt section to the rod.

    Jay
     
  2. hydrological

    hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

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    yes, forget the line class numbers !! entirely !!
    when someone asks me "what weight rod is that?" i just tell them how many grains the head i'm throwing is. that other number means nothing!!

    check out the line reccomendation chart for spey rods on the rio website (pdf files). several hundred rods are listed. both current, and discontinued rods, 2 different charts. you will see there really is no standard. 6wts run between 300 and 450 grains depending. that 6wt designation is completely arbitrary. a good example are winstons 7wts. the 7110 likes a 325 gr scandi, the 7133 likes 475 grains (also scandi) they are the same damn brand!! i have lots of expereience with both rods. my tcx 7119 is great with a 415 gr scandi, the 7126 equivalent is about 510. you can waste a ton of money trying to match lines based on that arbitrary number. this is gospel, not some arbitrary bs. just look at all the thousands of different threads on spey pages regarding this subject. every spey newby, is astounded at this phenomenon. its what happens when marketing "geniuses" run the show.

    btw, i checked both current and old charts, and the batson brand is not listed. is it an ebay brand or something like it? i see them discussed on spey pages ocassionally, that might be the best place to get a grain window reccomendation.
     
  3. hydrological

    hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

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  4. RustE

    RustE drifting about

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    Batson is pretty much the same as Rainshadow, just different management.

    I don't see either brand noted on the 2012 recommendation charts. Don't have the 2013 charts handy.
     
  5. jwg

    jwg Active Member

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  6. hookedonthefly

    hookedonthefly Active Member

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    The problem with lining a spey/switch rod over the internet or via shop, manufacturer's or manufacturer's rep recommendation is it's just that...a recommendation or more appropriately a starting point. 30 grains can make a BIG difference.

    In my opinion, when lined appropriately, the two-handed rod should feel intuitive and effortless to cast. It should make you smile :D .

    You can spend a ton of money on lines that don't work well for your rod or your casting style. You can see, based on the posts and links here, the variety of grainages that your rod could potentially throw.

    There must be somebody in your area that geeks out on the Spey; and thus, owns a bunch of different lines. Poppy at the Red Shed will send you three lines at a time to try. Send them back and keep one or two or send them all back and try more.

    I've seen shops, manufacturers and their reps, in some cases, as much as 80 grains off on their recommendations. I'm sure there's someone out there that runs a Skagit Compact 570g on their Echo TR7 as recommended by the manufacturer but every single person I know has picked the 540g over the 570g in lining that rod.

    Another challenge with Spey is, when learning, it frequently seems like black magic. It's not. Try different lines with different grainages and when it's right, even as a beginner, you should be able to tell what works well.
    Cheers,
    Ed
     
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  7. mtgreenheads

    mtgreenheads Member

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    Dragging this one up again. Leaning towards a Reddington Dually, 11' 5 wt, with a Rio Switch Chucker line.

    Any opinions or experience with this rig?

    Thanks!

    Bob
     
  8. hydrological

    hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

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    if you're just learning to spey cast, a 12.5-13.5' rod will make the learninng curve soooo much more enjoyable. so will a bit heavier rod. a 13 ' 7wt is about ideal. later, the shorter rod will be gravy.
    not to mention plenty of mt. rivers have room for even a 15' rod. 7wt is not always overkill for an(actually) 18" wild fish. it just means landing fish quicker, and isn't that the point?
     
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  9. Ian Broadie

    Ian Broadie Flyfishing is so "Metal"

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    I totally agree learning to two handed cast on a switch rod is not the way to go, a switch rod when used properly (they are not merely short two handed fly rods) is more of an advanced tactics tool that when lined properly can be either cast as a two hander or a single hander. However if you still want to check out the Reddington Dually, the 13' 7wt is a really nice rod for the price and I really enjoyed the opportunity to test it out last November..... I should really get around to writing the review on it that I've been putting off :S
     
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  10. hookedonthefly

    hookedonthefly Active Member

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    Ok...I can't stand it. Trout in Montana's big rivers...

    Echo SR5 Switch with 6wt or 7wt Ambush with tips
    Meiser 4/5/6 Highlander Spey with 390 Skagit Compact with tips or Scandi 420g
    Burkie 7125 with Nextcast 5/6 Fall Favorite 45 and just plain waking/skating. Don't let the 7 fool you...it's RAD!
    I Digress,
    Ed
     
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