Swing sinktips deep

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by yuhina, Jan 3, 2011.

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sinktip adjustment

  1. faster sink rate, same length

    14 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. faster sink rate, longer length

    3 vote(s)
    7.1%
  3. same sink rate, longer length

    2 vote(s)
    4.8%
  4. change casting angle

    7 vote(s)
    16.7%
  5. change to heavy weighted fly

    10 vote(s)
    23.8%
  6. add weight to leader

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  7. others

    5 vote(s)
    11.9%
  1. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    Hi All,

    I was wondering what's your winter fishing strategy regarding to swing sinktips for trout/ steelhead.

    For instance, what you will do if you are fishing in a run with a moderate speed (t14, 10 feet) then, you are moving into another faster run ahead of you. What strategy you will use to get the fly down?

    my choice: change to heavy weighted fly...
    looking forward to your input. thanks.


    Mark
     
  2. willburrrr2003

    willburrrr2003 Member

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    I am completely new only have one outing for steelhead so far, but here is my setup. I am using an inherited rod from my friends grandfather that was an avid fisherman. The rod is from somewhere around 1955. I am using a nice new floating line, with a sinking leader, then a couple foot of 3x tippet. I am using flies with a larger hook for more weight to aid in sinking. I have two sinking leaders to choose from, a fast sinking one and an ultra fast sinking one. the faster the water the faster you want it to sink, the slower the water the slower you want it to sink (based on advice from fly shop). This weekend I will by tying some Skykomish Sunrise flies to test out on Saturday on the Skykomish.
     
  3. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    If the next run I fish is slightly faster than the previous one, and I was set up optimally at the previous run, I'll first adjust my casting angle to see if that will put my fly in the zone. That is, if I was casting 90* straight across in the first run, I will cast slightly upstream in the second run to see if the extra drift and sink time gets my fly where I want it. If not, then I will try a weighted fly (faster adjustment) before switching to a faster sinking tip.

    Sg
     
  4. Grayone

    Grayone Fishin' to the end, Oc.P

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    The new run, will I be able to swing it out in 5 min, 10 min, 30 min?.....is the depth the same? Will I have to cast farther or shorter? Am I fishing moals, hairwings, etc? What are the tailout characteristics? Do I have to deal with obstructions in the run or tailout? To me, it all depends?
     
  5. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    This is good already. I'm thinking faster sink rate, same length; change casting angle; other: mend to achieve the desired depth/drift. I can't wait to see more responses like Sg and Grayone though!
     
  6. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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  7. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    I have to agree I am a bit reluctant to spend time on change sink tips ... thus, lead me to change the fly...
    Yeah, Keith read my mind here too... I agree "time investment" also play a role in the equation.

    One of the problem I have encountered lately, is fishing the "rock garden" type. longer sinktip always give me some problem that the line get a "hang" on the rock, then it "floss" through the rocks and get snagged up at the end. A heavy weighted fly will "tick" the rock first and give me some warning before I swing too deep, but again, the weighted fly has another set of problem that it become more "jig" action...
     
  8. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    i will use all of the above except adding weight to leader.

    and i will never understand the issue with the time to change a sinktip. my time is too valuable to not be fishing the most effective tip, and the time lost to breaking off a fly due to not changing probably takes an equal if not longer time (especially if you have to add leader material).

    time is valuable, but changing a tip is not wasteful if done for a reason.
     
  9. Nooksack Mac

    Nooksack Mac Active Member

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    I think most of us use two or more of these in tandum. I almost always use 15-foot sinktips, which can be cast with switch rods if they're not too dense. And I change density of my tip if the other fixes aren't enough. I use heavily weighted flies only if nothing else will work. An extra-dense tip is easier to cast than a big MOAL with lead-weighted eyes. Casting a little further upstream and/or throwing in an extra mend gets you a little deeper.

    And since you can't see a sunk fly, rely on touch. If you're hooking bottom every two or three casts, you're overweighted. If you're not hooking bottom ever, it's time to change.
     
  10. orangeradish

    orangeradish Bobo approved

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    I am a shitty steelheader, so take this with a big grain of salt.

    Fishy dudes told me to cast across and down, mend, then do a big lift with the rod. The fly dead drifts for a bit before going tight and starting the swing. This lets it get down where the alleged steelhead allegedly reside.
     
  11. Mark Speer

    Mark Speer It's all good.....

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    If I am having success with the fly I was using in the first run, I will just change sinktips. I mainly use a Type 3 and type 6 15'. If I haven't had any luck in the first run I may just change to a heavier fly using the same tip. If no one is behind me, I will come back through with the same fly and heavier tip. If that doesn't work, I'll get out, have a cigar and a nip and start it over again!:)
     
  12. Yard Sale

    Yard Sale Active Member

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    They call it hunting fish for a reason. Slow down, take your time, and fish each piece of water the RIGHT way. Change flies, tips, whatever. Just make sure you have full confidence in your set up for that run.

    I never understood the change casting angle deal. Yes, your fly sinks deeper, but think about the angle your line is in the water when it swings....a tip at 90 degrees is going to yank that fly through that water WAY too fast.

    Heavier tip, heavier fly if you really want to get down in that water, but you gotta ask why your fishing faster water in the first place....

    My $.02 stolen from the take a penny bin.
     
  13. stewart dee

    stewart dee Guest

    I like a type 3 and heavy fly in the winter= My dollar if that helps with the bus fair.
     
  14. Matt Baerwalde

    Matt Baerwalde ...

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    Can you describe this "big lift" a little more? (Allegedly)

    You're not actually pulling the fly upstream are you?
     
  15. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Have heard this repeated by some steelhead legends....

    It's something I always think about but say F--- it...and just put on a heavier or lighter fly...

    I'm inbetween on my own experience....but for catch rates have done better with a heavier tip and a unweighted fly...

    this year i'm going with the heavier fly and lighter tip or heavy heavy and see what happens...
     
  16. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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    It depends on how the run is laid out but if I'm not feeling bottom at all, I'll change tips. I used to change my casting angle but for the reasons yard sale described I try to stay @ 90% or less. This is not etched in stone for me, cause every stuation is different, but I like to swim my fly across the run with some control, and I find casting farther up stream, I lose some of that control.
     
  17. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Oh, the right way. What's the right way? Is there but one "right" way? I know a number of highly skilled steelheaders, and while we all fish similarly, there are differences in our styles, and no one particular style is more "right" than the other when it comes to fish caught.

    If you've never understood the casting angle deal, I'm guessing you didn't do much winter steelhead fishing when the fastest sinking fly lines were SA Hi-D or High Speed Hi-D, the later being roughly equivalent to a RIO type III. With one fly line doing 90+% of my winter fishing (no weighted flies on the single handed rods), line angle and line management was THE method for controlling the depth of fly presentation. A 15' tip at 90* to the current isn't moving any faster across current than the floating portion of the line that is being controlled by mending. I cannot say if it is right, only that hundreds of winter steelhead found it right enough.

    Faster water is often worth fishing because the steelhead that hold there often hit well. A half decent presentation to such fish can be 100% effective.

    Sg
     
  18. ralfish

    ralfish Active Member

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    With faster water you have to consider the effect of the current on the thicker, heavier tip. I prefer tips that aren't thicker than t-8,t-10 for this reason. Fatter line equals more surface area for stronger current to grab the line, negating any gains in a quicker sink rate. Unless, I switch out to a custom tip where the last couple feet near the fly line are mono. Reason: the thinner mono will cut through the faster surface water allowing the thicker heavier tip to get down to the slower bottom water.

    Another consideration is how far you are casting out. A wide, anything over say 80', that is fast will be tough to fish a fly through properly. Of course that is going to depend on the structure in the run. I see a lot of guys hero casting to the other side and making big swings irregardless of what the water is doing. Thats nice casting but usually ineffective fishing, if you arent properly working the structure and seams....

    If you are only needing to get out 40 ' or less, use a long leader of flouro( thinner for higher lb. test) and a heavy sparse fly ( if the water clarity allows) and lead the fly through the water with your rod, ala high stick nymphing. Not as romantic as the swung fly, but in fast water, more effective in getting down. Once you get further out, past high stick range, cast but dont swing your line tight to the fly. Keep stacking down stream mends to let the fly get down, without moving the fly, similar to a greased line presentation. Again, sparse, heavy flies are the ticket.

    Playing around with short bodied full sink or sink tip scandi heads on mono shooting lines will get you down in fast, deep water as well. The nice thing with these lines, is because of the shorter head, its easier keeping the mono shooting line off the water so you can more effectivley fish slower water on the other side of a fast rip, without having the fast water take off with your line...

    It all comes down to what you realy want to do. Sometimes its worth the time investment to fish water that most others go by. For sure it can be a challange, but in pressured water, it can be worth it, if you can figure out how to effectivley fish what is there with whatever method you enjoy
     
  19. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    ralfish,

    Interesting read!
    I have to agree this high sticking game, to me, has been VERY effective in trout fishing (not steelhead). But, I am not sure if this will work for steelhead though. I am a firm believer that good presentation is more important than distance, I could be happily swinging wetfly within 40 feet all day to get a good control. Like s_g mentioned earlier, the upstream cast angle always get the fly down very effective, I use it a lot for striper fishing in strong river current. But again, for winter steelheading, I am just not sure if this is the right way to do.

    Second method about "the short scandi sinking head" is a quiet interesting strategy to me. I can picture the mono running line are much easier to manage in the current. Imagine the short head become "a section of corkie/bobber" hang above the leader... but I was wondering if you lost the control when the fly swing toward the late half section...
     
  20. orangeradish

    orangeradish Bobo approved

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    Yep. Pull it up a bit, and let it dead drift back down. Again, it's just what I've been told by jedis.
     

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