swinging flies== flossing fish??

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by sandspanker, Oct 23, 2011.

?

How many fish are flossed on the swing

Poll closed Nov 6, 2011.
  1. 25%

    57.1%
  2. 50%

    23.8%
  3. 75%

    19.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Zeb Stadler

    Zeb Stadler Member

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    This post was a burning building. I knew it was going to get horrible but I had to watch it all burn.
    Awesome.
     
  2. 1morecast

    1morecast Active Member

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    25-75% is a really high number to start with. I have never flossed or foul hooked ANY FISH (am I doing something wrong:rofl:) on the swing. And I like to swing! Be it soft hackles for trout or big tubes, or big irons for salmon and steelhead!

    Come to think of it, I can not recall anyone ever talking about a foul hooked fish on the swing.
     
  3. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    We're now at page 5 and still no definitive answer...:beathead: A question I have is, if we are flossing and the result of flossing is a hook in the mouth, HITF will we ever know for sure? :hmmm:

    ...this ought to be worth at least 5 more pages :D
     
  4. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    I caught one hooked on the top of it's head. Bizzare... it was like it headbutted the damn thing...
     
  5. Brazda

    Brazda Fly Fishing guide "The Bogy House" Lodge

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    This is stupid,,,Flossing is the puposefull hooking of a NON Biting fish,,,it does not happen here in the NW on Steelhead, maybe some jackasses on salmon!

    Can one accidently snag a steelhead possable but not too likely,,,seen maybe 2 out of thousands..and that was in less than a foot of vis...

    I have however seen them bite so aggressivly as took them selves outside the mouth but what the hell aggressive biting is what its about...
     
  6. bhudda

    bhudda heffe'

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    Jerry, I think your seeing the hoochie/ twitching phenomenon:) we killed it on hoochie / jigs this last week, put a hurt on some coho! .... takes about 4 cranks and a twitch:):)
     
  7. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    Friggin snagger!! ;)

    We slayed silvers as well over a week ago. Funny how the hootchie and grubs/bass worms on the hooks are finally catching on. Work like a charm especially on the hook of a spinner.

    Ok Mr. Smartass. I meant the drift guys with corky and yarn doing. Jigs are a tad different. Why I outta put you on timeout sir. ;)
     
  8. bhudda

    bhudda heffe'

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    ok Jerry , Can u do 2 weeks , no cartoons , and no dessert on the peninsula . My wife agrees, no cartoons :)
     
  9. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    No cartoons for sure. But damned, you'd have to miss my desserts on the OP? Sucks to be you. Ask Chris. He dug it. :)
     
  10. FT

    FT Active Member

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    In over 20 years of fly fishing for steelhead exclusively through swinging wets, riffle-hitching flies, or skating dries, I've never snagged, foul hooked, or hooked one anywhere except inside the mouth. The wets were swung on both floating lines and sinktips of many densities (i.e. sing rates). And I fish flies on hooks from #10's all the way up to #2/0's. Additionally, I've never seen any friends who swing flies for steelhead hook one anywhere other than inside the mouth. Therere, it is very obvious to me tha this poll's catagories are very biased in assuming there is a rather large number/percentage of steelhead that are "flossed, snagged, foul-hooked" when swinging flies.

    Can one foul-hook a steelhead on a swung fly, perhaps; but it would not be very many. I'd guess the percentage to be 1% or less.
     
  11. Randall Clark

    Randall Clark Active Member

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    Never happened to me with a steelhead, but I was swinging soft hackles for trout once and felt a tap tap tap, fish on-type thing....turns out that I arse-hooked a whitefish...I have no clue how the hell that happened.
     
  12. mudshark

    mudshark Deep dweller

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: just crazzzzzy
     
  13. ak_powder_monkey

    ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

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    gotta swing to floss... I'd say 99.9% of sockeye hooked on the swing are flossed, you can nymph too em if you want too but its not as efficient, and you can't eat the way you caught it
     
  14. Steelie Mike

    Steelie Mike Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    Here is one from the other day, not flossed, dog shit grab and swallowed. This was the second fish I caught like this this year. One on a dryline and this one on an intermediate. Both fish basically stopped the fly.

    [​IMG]

    Also not flossed, but no hooked in the mouth either. Fishing river left I kept having fish come up in a boulder field and smack the fly and this fish obviously moved toward the bank to take the fly. This was fished on and right above the surface. A few years back I had a fish annihilate a fly again fishing river left and hooked on the right side of its head. Yes its head, just passed the eye and above. I also had another fish hooked fishing river left in the right peck fin. This was on a super long MOAL with crappy clarity, so that may have been the issue because part of the fly was probably in the mouth when it took.

    The only time I have ever seen anyone floss steelhead it was in Herman Creek in Oregon. That is not a swing fishery though there is some merit in fishing for them in that kind of lake fishing scenario, but not really.

    I really do not have a point other then flossing steelhead doesn't really happen while swinging flies for steelhead. I have seen too many fish over the years move to flies both swung and nymphed to believe that this happens much. Like Rob Allen said, "flossing fish typically requires a concentration of fish and that nearly never happens with steelhead."
     
  15. SilverFly

    SilverFly Active Member

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    Well have to admit I read the whole thing expecting a complete train wreck. Instead, I'm actually somewhat impressed it hasn't devolved further given the potential flammability of the original post. Whether sandspanker posted it as a troll, or an honest question I can't tell, but think one should be able to at least ask this without being burned at the stake (again, kudos to you guys for the "restraint" so far.) Being a part-time-gear-fishing dirtbag, I can confirm that there IS a perception out there that all fly-fishermen are flossers and that includes swingers - sorry. So with that in mind, a bit of rational analysis might not be such a bad thing towards dispelling such myths.

    Granted my personal experience swinging is limited compared to most on this forum, but I have done my share. I'm sure flossing a fish on the swing is possible, but the odds have to be very, very slim. For starters, a properly swung fly (and line) will cut a horizontal plane through the water column that passes ABOVE the holding level of the fish. That fact alone virtually eliminates flossing anything but the occasional fish spontaneously rising at the precise moment the line passes. When considering how seldom fish rise for no apparent reason, and how sparsely steelhead are typically scattered throughout a river, the odds of flossing on the swing approach zero asymptotically (been waiting to use that for a while.)

    As previously stated, to have a reasonable chance of flossing the fish would need to be stacked very densely and that seldom happens with steelhead. There are exceptions though such as the estuary fishery at Herman Creek that Mike mentioned. I'm sure I probably flossed a fish or two over there over the years but I think it would be the exception given the fact that the water rarely moves there. It's also the only place I've ever had fish (3 total) completely swallow a fly - past the gill rakers. Fortunately both steelhead were hatchery as was a small "upriver bright" chinook.

    I'd also like to address Rob's comment about flossing salmon being a problem in fast water due to "panting". Rob and I have been discussing salmon on another forum and not saying his comment is directed at me (necessarily) but targeting migrating fish in fast water slots can be very effective - and legitimate. Rob knows exactly where I fish and therefore is aware that I have an excellent view of what's happening in the water. Please don't apply any "sporting challenge" values to this approach because I am "meat fishing", pure and simple - and doing it legally for hatchery fish (the negative connotation of that term is another discussion). Anyway, it's obvious fish migrating through fast water are tired and open their mouths more frequently, and wider, so in that sense there is a greater risk of lining a fish. That said, I have observed many, many fish move to take flies and bait in the slots I fish. Not saying none have been flossed (that I know) but I use typically use very short (12-16") leaders. I also hook fish when they are moving through in small groups or even singles, so it would seem likely that the vast majority of fish are taking the fly or bait freely.

    Flossing happens incidentally - so what? Especially if it removes a hatchery fish from the river that likely wouldn't have taken a fly anyway. The real problem are those who practice it actively - even taking pride in it as a "skill". Unfortunately because of those people, flossing has become a neat label to apply to anyone that fishes differently than we like to.
     
  16. sandspanker

    sandspanker Member

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    well with all of the posts.. I did ask a question. not a troll just was wondering about other thoughts on this subject..nothing more or less...I am trying to soak it all in as I am still green behind the gills.
     
  17. SilverFly

    SilverFly Active Member

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    That's how took it, but I don't follow forums like I used to, so my "troll radar" isn't exactly calibrated. Again, I think this concern is pretty much baseless. What I find interesting is that it was even brought up. The term "flossing" gets tossed around (or "off"?) a lot, so there is a lot of hype and defensiveness associated with the term. For someone new to the sport like yourself who is absorbing information faster than they can process - things can get very confusing. Enter a hot-button issue like flossing, and a simple question becomes a potential troll. The fact that you are concerned is a good thing because it means care about the sport and want the satisfaction of having a fish take your fly willingly.

    Now get out there and catch some fish. There should be silvers and a chance for early steel in your 'hood. And watch out for a large fat guy wearing beat to shit neoprenes.
     
  18. Randall Clark

    Randall Clark Active Member

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    come on, they're not THAT beat up...
     
  19. sandspanker

    sandspanker Member

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    Have been out a few times... still early for winters but I can hope to find another dumb one..LOL I drive a black frontier crew cab and fish the shoug,ef,kalama,etc... so I will probably see you at some pt or another. Happy fishing

    Josh Nordwell
     
  20. SilverFly

    SilverFly Active Member

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    I'm pretty sure you just called me FAT! Yeah, gotta break down and get a decent pair of breathables one of these days. Not sure how well they will stand up to my brand of abuse - or egg goo for that matter.

    A buddy busted me a couple weeks back walking back upriver with a casting rod in one hand and a late run silver in the other (running my yap as usual.) This ho grabbed a #4 polar shrimp then took me downriver thru some class 4 whitewater - hence the use of the casting rod.

    I'll keep an eye out for your rig Josh. Don't run if you see this yokel walking up:

    [​IMG]
     

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