Terrible Steelhead Video

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Zen Piscator, Nov 14, 2007.

  1. Stonefish Triploid and Humpy Hater

    Posts: 3,862
    Pipers Creek
    Ratings: +1,262 / 1
    Zen,
    I had watched the video a few days before you posted this. My thoughts are the guide should have asked the client if he wanted to keep the fish well before it was netted, not afterwards.
    While I don't agree with him keeping the fish, it is legal. I hope in the very near future the state will see the light and implement statewide wild steelhead release policy.

    One other thing I'd like to point out. This shouldn't be a issue about what type of equipment is used while fishing. There are many gear guides who have worked very hard to promote wild steelhead release to their clients. We need to work collectively as sportsmen to achieve goals, not against one another based on the gear we use.
    Brian
  2. HauntedByWaters Active Member

    Posts: 2,747
    Bellingham
    Ratings: +103 / 0
    Man oh man..........This place is getting way WAY overly sensative....


    See the "j/k" in my post........That means: JUST KIDDING.

    Furthermore if you had ever payed attention to my other posts, or even had 2 minutes with me in real life you would realize that I would NEVER WHACK A WILD STEELHEAD and that I am a fine, sensative, well educated person WITH A SENSE OF HUMOR.

    All you people need to take what you read with a grain of salt and think about the fact that almost anyone on this site, by the fact that we are shurely all fly fishers, care deeply about the preservation of our wild fish.

    SO SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION.

    It was meant to be a joke about the CCR in the background while a native steelhead was getting whacked.

    I thought that video was despicable! :mad:

    I find it very ineresting that many older peoples around here miss the heavy use of sarcasm by us young guys. There is a big difference in the sense of humor in us twenty somethings and the older folks. Learning that kind of thing is what real honest communication is all about.

    So now you know. My generation is addicted to sarcasm.
  3. Diehard aka Justin

    Posts: 866
    Seattle, Washington, USA.
    Ratings: +2 / 0
    I think what he should be doing is trying to persuade the client to release it before it is netted. If they want to keep it, I guess that is thier choice because it's legal. I think it is up to the guide to inform the client how important it is to release those though, especially since his business and livelyhood depends on them. He would be kinda bitting himself in the ass by keeping a lot of wild fish...

    Also, even though it is legal, I definitely agree with not promoting keeping those wild fish like that. If it happens, that's fine, just don't post that video on the internet, post one where you release it or something.
  4. Zen Piscator Supporting wild steelhead, gravel to gravel.

    Posts: 3,076
    Missoula, MT
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    Its not a gear/fly fishing issue. Thanks for all the responses.
  5. D3Smartie Active Member

    Posts: 1,987
    WA
    Ratings: +4 / 0
    HA!!!! too bad it isnt funny, but you cannot honestly believe that.:confused:
    Our fishery managers are the reason we have hardly anything left at all... The numbers of wild steelhead left are so low its sad we can even fish for them anymore.

    The good thing is that there are a lot of guides out there that will protect the resource and not allow the retention of wild steelhead. If you want to book a trip, support those individuals...
  6. Tylerflies New Member

    Posts: 116
    Bellingham, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Perhaps there could/should be some regulations for guides as to a protocol on landing fish. Land the fish in a rubber net while in the water and then ask the client if its a keeper. Regardless, even if the kill was legal this fish should be released. Is it true that wild steelhead are a threatened species? Take action and email or call but I don't see that it will matter. this is an individual choice based on how we all veiw this morrally and ecologically. Some people just don't seem to get it, and since enforcement seems to be few and far between, then what is there to do? other than taking personal responsibility for ourselves, individually to release wild steelhead quickly and carefully and hope that others see why this is important. I figure that if you do contact this guide, be respectful so that he isn't immediatly defensive. opening the door for discussion is better than an attack.

    As a side, I have heard many different things about lactic acid level rising in fighting fish, and the effects on post release mortality. anybody have any information on this. Some research that might conclude whether our well meaning efforts to release fish are successful or in vain.

    Tyler
  7. Davy Active Member

    Posts: 2,021
    SIlverton, OR
    Ratings: +16 / 0
    well, I am a fine, sensitive, well edukated person with a sense of humor.

    aren't I????
  8. Scottpuck Member

    Posts: 178
    North Bend, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    If only there was this much energy expended on the "real" issues...

    When are people going to learn not to beat up fellow sportfishers? Ethics aside, there is nothing in this video that proves he is breaking a law (Unless I missed the river and the date it was caught).

    Beating people up for ethical reasons (when its within the law) is plain wrong.

    ... and dont even get me started on the raping of our rivers in the name of tribal substanance.

    If you really want to help, start lobbying for change. I would love to see nothing more than C&R for all native and wild fish across the state.
  9. Gary Thompson dirty dog

    Posts: 3,891
    East Wenatchee, WA
    Ratings: +131 / 0
    Not trying to beat a dead horse, but all fishing guides should be promoting C&R, after all, fishing is how they make a living.
    Good on you Zen, some guides (guys) have no respect.
  10. Scott Keith Member

    Posts: 602
    Arlington, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Zen, this is in no way meant to be a slam... just a question... If you are so passionate about all wild steelhead being catch and release have you done anything to get this changed on a whole? Sure it's nice to let out some frustration and vent on a guide that is keeping wild steelhead (legally), but is that really going to solve anything? What about proposing new regulations to make rivers C&R for wild fish? The guide did nothing illegal in the video that I could see, not that I'm condoning the keeping of wild steelhead even where it's legal... but I think our energies would be better directed in making changes to the laws where possible.

    Scott
  11. Flyborg Active Member

    Posts: 2,299
    Kalama, WA
    Ratings: +597 / 0
    Reposted from iFish, original post by STGRule:

  12. Zen Piscator Supporting wild steelhead, gravel to gravel.

    Posts: 3,076
    Missoula, MT
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    Scott,
    Thanks for the questions. Yes, I have.

    The walla walla river has a c&r season from feb to april above the oregon border that is all wild fish. I have spoken to biologists and gameys about this and the ball is now rolling to close down that season. Furthermore I would like to see a march 31st closuer of our rivers instead of an april 15th closuer. In some local tribs fish are in FULL spawn mode by early april but by that time most of the hatchery fish are either at the hatchery or caught and killed.

    With calls to WDFW and letters to politicions we are slowing making changes.
  13. Steve Buckner Mother Nature's Son

    Nice Post Zen, email sent.

    It's irresponsible in 2007 for any guide service to promote that there are enough wild steelhead to continue the killing. As pointed out, this guides training has been to land the fish first, ask questions about killing it later. He didn't check for an adipose whatsoever...

    One can only hope that this type of video will 1. Drive potential business away, 2. That the company will get a deluge of "educational emails", and lastly, 3: That this "guide service" will remove the video and require that their guides practice C&R for all wild fish.

    Just because the WDFW caved to Mayor Reed (Forks) does not carry enough weight to suggest that wild fish are thriving, or for that matter, maintaining. Every year, the counts go down. Nets and killing are mostly to blame. That said, ultimately, it is the WDFW that we should all be frustrated with. Their MSY ideology is certainly partly/moderately/largely to blame for the ESA listing of steelhead (and others) in the Puget Sound.
  14. Scott Keith Member

    Posts: 602
    Arlington, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Thanks for the answer! While I haven't been involved yet, I'd like to be. I'm pretty sure I should join a fly club and start with that...

    Scott
  15. xafisher JBrown

    Posts: 62
    Sedro Woolley, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I really don't think this is the issue...Tribal fishermen have held subsistence fishing long before settlement and this was never considered "raping the rivers"...especially "our" rivers, which by the way for some reason are mostly named after the very same tribes. Most tribes I've seen put more effort into habitat restoration and forfeit their treaty fishing right to not impact the numbers of endangered wild fish.

    As far as the issue with the guide netting a wild steelhead and letting it flop on his boat, although may be legal, not very wise with the resource.
  16. bhudda heffe'

    Posts: 1,946
    basement
    Ratings: +109 / 0
    try kim and karen:)
  17. Steve Buckner Mother Nature's Son

    Yeah???
    Try ice fishing!
  18. James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

    Posts: 2,787
    Tacoma
    Ratings: +88 / 0
    In general the rivers are cool enough that the fish don't get going metabolically the same way that trout would. It's possible, but it's more related to how fast you land the fish more than anything else. If you're taking more than a few minutes to land a 10lb steelhead, you really want to evaluate how you're fighting the fish. In *general* catch and release fishing has very little effect in the overall survival of the fish run as a whole. Individual fish mortality and reproductive success may be reduced, the effect seems negigable on overall populations. Repeated studies of the Skagit C&R season bears this out as well as some other rivers. Salmo_g or Smalama may have significantly more detailed data, but in general the following rules are pretty good ones to live by:

    1) Land the fish as quickly as possible
    2) Keep them in the water
    3) Handle them as little as possible
  19. bhudda heffe'

    Posts: 1,946
    basement
    Ratings: +109 / 0
    i like try...
  20. gerhardtsoeffker Member

    Posts: 36
    W.Montana
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    alright then....>>>>>........I'll take the hit.......malatov tonight......