Discussion in 'Patterns' started by Philster, Aug 8, 2007.
I just think it's a cool pattern, kudo's
Today I purposely tried to find a difference in casting a clouser of the same weight/size vs a s&a of the same weight/size and I can cast both equally. I know the physics behind the ballistics of a round head vs dumbell eyes are remarkably different, but for casting purposes, there is no notable difference.
I personally prefer using s&a's for two reasons, the knot is protected from the punishment of hitting the rocks and it swims true all the time. What is interesting is that most of my hookups are on clousers, even though I enjoy tying on a s&a. Where I fish the water can become murky, so the bright contrasting colors of the bucktail is more visible to the fish than the transparent look of the s&a. At least this is my hypothesis at this stage in the salt game.
You don't have to use transparent materials. Pugliese's seahair (I think it's called that) is a little softer than slinky, but would be great and it is opaque. Polar Air would be great. I believe Anil uses yak hair on bigger ones, and you can buy finer "trout streamer" yak hair. Super hair has some opaque colors. Tie up a few with egg yarn. Arctic fox tied in temple dog style would be perfect. See here for tying demo on this technique http://www.rackelhanen.se/eng/10265c.htm The first time I saw a Shock and Awe I thought "Cool a saltwater Templedog!" That's one reason I like them. Reminds me of steelhead flies, which are my first true tying love.
Heck, tie some with bucktail using a modified "Thunder Creek" style! Gotta think out of the box some times. When you read a new recipe that has ingredients you don't already own, your first thought shouldn't be "I gotta buy some", it should be "what do I have that works?" Fish hair is "lanker" but would work and make a great slim SRC sand lance pattern.
As to the knot on a clouser hitting the rocks... Dude. If I'm smashin' rocks, my last concern is the knot... Besides, my clousers are on tubes these days. Usually with the hook riding point down, not point up. Less fish damage. Think out of the box...
I stand corrected!!!!! I forgot you are a perfect caster and never experience fly damage due to "banging them on the beach!" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I wrote a 3 paragraph answer with a possible solution to your problem, but I'm not feeling any appreciation for the last solution I gave you. So I'll just stick to this instead : I'm quite honest about my flies hitting rocks and why I don't like expensive flies when I'm around rocks. I started this thread, remember? :rofl:
So, hook down causes less damage? Does it tend to not hook as well? I thought (though not sure why aside from the obvious fouling on the bottom reasons), that hook up was preferred...
Hook point up frequently goes through the eye on small fish. I get a bycatch of LOTS of small cutts and salmon smolt in the sound. Hook down does less damage to the resource.
I am sure that it doesn't really matter to the fish, but the S&A just looks so much more like a baitfish......................
Nice work, innovative!:thumb: I don't see a real problem with the ballistics. Much better head profile than a standard clouser. I never liked the head of clouser type flies, this "fold" over technique seems to solve it nicely.
Philster, great looking stuff! Thanks for sharing the pics and info. I agree with other's Anil and his shop are an awesome resource. I'm in BC but had a conference near them and stopped by and enjoyed spending some money over a year ago.
Phil, I'm not too familiar with those tubes directly. How do you like to rig your hook and with what tippet? Thanks!
I have found four things that make life better when fishing tube flies like streamers, or steelhead flies with a definite back and belly.
1. When you are using a type of tube that requires junction tubing, keep the tubing you are tying on as short as possible. You need as much tubing as is required to hold the junction tubing securely but NO MORE than that. Also with some ties, and with thick junction tubing you want to pay attention to whether or not the junction is flairing the wing of your fly unnaturally. So make sure you do have enough body tubing to keep the junction from doing that.
2. Don't skimp on the junction tubing! Use enough that it holds the body tubing and the hook securely!
3. The shortest shank hook you use, the better you will avoid fouling on the cast. A round bend on a short hook also helps by keeping the point closer to the eye of the hook.
4. If either because of high winds, soft material, or crappy casting (hey somedays we just can't get it together) ) you are fouling constantly make sure you have some longer shank (not crazy long, but tiemco 811 or Gammy SC15 length) hooks with a SLIGHT bendback hook bend in them. Be prepared to clip the belly material a little, and fish the hooks point up, turning your tube fly into a bendback. This can also help a little if you're picking up lots of seaweed on the retrieve. You do have more potential of hurting small fish, but at least your fly will be swimming right.
Learn the Palomar knot too. It's the least bulky knot to get into your junction tubing