The Cripple Pattern, magic or what?

Discussion in 'Fly Tying' started by GAT, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. Jim Wallace

    Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

    This has been a interesting and educational thread. Thanks everyone!
    I was thinking of tying some black gnat emergers.
  2. Preston

    Preston Active Member

    Of course, I have and it does.
  3. GAT

    GAT Active Member

    This is an example of exactly how patterns should be tested before claiming they will defy the way of the world and float on the surface in a manner they simply can not do.

    A pattern may catch fish but perhaps not for the reason the originator of the fly claims it works. The above photos in this thread show quite clearly how patterns are truly presented to the fish... not an assumption as to how the pattern looks in the water.
  4. Mark Mercer

    Mark Mercer Member

    Preston, great looking patten, just curious but I've played with these types of patterns before, mostly for midge pupas on scud hooks (14 - 18), when I throw them in a bowl of water they usually sit correctly but almost all the time when I fish them they just lay on there sides and don't have enough weight to brake the surface film. Have you had that problem with yours?
    Is the tension of the surface film in your normal lake or pond, not counting things like oil and algae and mud, different than tap water in a bowl? Just wondering....Anyone?
  5. GAT

    GAT Active Member

    My friend, Rocky and I tried casting traditional Catskill dry fly patterns in a mud puddle while the other guy watched how they landed. Half of the time the flies hit the water on their sides with the hook off to the side and not submerged... this is why I switched to a parachute style of dry fly pattern.

    Most of my midge emerger patterns are either tied on heavy wire hooks or include some manner of bead to overcome the water tension problem. A small glass bead doesn't add much weight but does help break the surface.
  6. Mark Mercer

    Mark Mercer Member

    Yes, I'm aware of the problems with collared catskill flies, I haven't use them for many years either, I always tie and use parachutes and comparaduns for that reason. This is a different situation, we are trying to get only part of the fly to sink, not all of it. Even when I've tied them parachute (clickhammer?) style, forward wing, or with CDC the butt of the fly doesn't want to brake the film. This is just the problem I've encountered with very small flies.

    I'd still like to know if there is a difference in the surface tension of different waters, I would think there is, but don't
    know if it would make that much difference for what we're talking about.
  7. Gary Knowels

    Gary Knowels Active Member

    Temperature of the water has probably the biggest impact on surface tension (aside from good surfactants). Surface tension increases as the water gets colder. It could be that the difference in surface tension between your room temperature water at ~20 degrees C and stream water as low as 2-3 degrees C is great enough to alter whether a fly will break the surface or not. You might consider using refrigerated water for your trials.
  8. GAT

    GAT Active Member

    I think the type of water is paramount as to if and how the pattern sinks. Most likely, the pattern will sink more easily in moving water than in stillwaters.
  9. Mark Mercer

    Mark Mercer Member

    Thanks Gary, that's what I was looking for, makes sense to me.
    GAT, I totally agree they do sink much quicker in moving water and maybe thats been part of the problem because most of my efforts have been for stillwater.
  10. Gary Knowels

    Gary Knowels Active Member

    In between the beer and girls, I managed to learn something in college!
  11. Litho

    Litho New Member

    The image of the BWO emerger tied on an umbrella hook was tied by myself at the Ellensburg fly tying gathering. I have had great success using this design for PMD and midge patterns as well. In my experience, this style of pattern consistently sits below the surface film and presents a trigger to feeding trout. Thanks.
  12. Big E

    Big E Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks for the postback. Not having fished these before, how's your hook-up ratio over normal hooks?
  13. Preston

    Preston Active Member

    Mark Mercer,
    My inverted midge doesn't always land in the correct position, but a little twitch of the line usually sets it right. Although my eyesight is about what you'd expect at 72, surprisingly enough the ends of the foam cylinder I use to represent the white gills (and to float the eye of the hook) can usually be seen as two tiny white dots at typical casting distances.
  14. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

    Awesome thread people!
  15. GAT

    GAT Active Member

    Okay, now you guys have me interested in uses CDC for midge emerger patterns. I used the CDC for both the shell-back and the gills. Will it float correctly? Beats me but I'm going to try it anyway.

    Well, after testing the pattern in the sink, it does not float with the head up. The CDC can't overcome the weight of the hook. Back to the drawing board.

  16. Pat Lat

    Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

    well its a good looking fly anyway, I'm sure that the cdc helps it at least sink slower, as far as catching a fish I'm sure it would work. Maybe try white foam shellback with a puff of cdc if you want a surface pattern. just be sure to keep it back from the eye of the hook, foam can get a little bulky, And I cant really tell from the pic, but maybe use a finer wire hook.