The Earth Is Bleeding...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by dryflylarry, May 14, 2010.

  1. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Environmental catastrophe, not political platform.
     
  2. Jim Wallace

    Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

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    Thanks, Mumbles. I hate the Democrap and the Repthuglican parties equally. Its always a conundrum for me come election time when it comes down to choosing the lesser of two evils.

    Over the last decade, things haven't been going too well for whistleblowers:
    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/14/oil.whistleblower/index.html

    Apparently, the former Secretary of the Interior, Dirk Kempthorne, claimed to be outraged by Bobby Maxwell's allegations and findings. but he didn't do anything about it.
    His successor, the current Interior Secretary, Ken Salazar, also did nothing to fix the problem with the Mineral Management Service, until now that its too late. He should have known about this problem, and by last year at the latest, he should have cleaned up the corruption in the MMS. But he didn't do anything. So you see, it doesn't matter who's in charge of the public interest. They will be bought.
    I'm going fishing before the oil works its way around to here.
     
  3. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

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    I missed this. Can anyone tell me about what happened here? or, the rest of the story?

    Murray Slams Republicans for Blocking Bill to Make Big Oil Pay to Clean up Spills

    May 13, 2010
    (Washington D.C.) – Today, U.S. Senator Patty Murray (D-WA) released the following statement after Republicans blocked the Big Oil Bailout Prevention from passing today. This bill, co-sponsored by Senator Murray, would make sure oil companies are held accountable for the economic costs resulting from spills.

    “I am extremely disappointed that Senate Republicans once again put Big Oil profits over Washington state taxpayers,” said Senator Patty Murray. “Today, we had a chance to make sure Washington state taxpayers would never be left holding the bag for oil companies’ environmental and economic disasters, but Senate Republicans said no. This is a simple issue of fairness—if an oil company causes a spill, they should have to pay to clean it up.”

    Currently, the responsible party in an oil spill must cover all costs related to clean up; however, there is a $75 million cap on its liability for economic damages, such as lost business revenues from fishing and tourism, natural resources damages or lost local tax revenues. The Big Oil Bailout Prevention legislative package would raise the liability cap from $75 million to $10 billion.

    The legislative package is composed of two bills. One to increase the oil spill liability cap and the other is to reform the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund.

    S. 3305, The Big Oil Bailout Prevention Liability Act would:

    Raise the liability cap for offshore oil well spills from $75 million to $10 billion.
    S. 3306, The Big Oil Bailout Prevention Trust Fund Act would:
    Eliminate the $1 billion per incident cap on claims against the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund and allow community responders to access the fund for preparation and mitigation up front, rather than waiting for reimbursement later.
    If damage claims exceed the amount in the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund (currently $1.6 billion), then Treasury can temporarily refill the Fund and be repaid by the oil industry with interest once it is replenished.
    Eliminate the $500 million cap on natural resources damages.
    The Big Oil Bailout Prevention legislative package was introduced on the heels of the British Petroleum Gulf Coast oil spill disaster, and days after BP announced that their single-quarter profits doubled to $6 billion.
     
  4. oldskool

    oldskool Guest

    So true. Yet isn't it sad that they are already spinning it that way. Maybe if they spent as much time and money to stop the leak, as they did to pass/stop the health care bill, this thing might be closer to being done.
     
  5. Go Fish

    Go Fish Language, its a virus

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    If I screw up I pay for it.

    So should BP.

    It's nice that they have the friends to get their liability limited.

    BP must have insurance....Oh yeah, it's half of
    the US Government.

    Boyccot BP (do a search)

    Dave
     
  6. Jim Wallace

    Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

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    Sometimes i like to "think the unthinkable" just for a mental exercise. Suppose this wasn't an accident.

    A BP official told the Horizon workers that "This is how its going to be done," despite their arguments to the contrary. A supervisor left the rig with other workers in charge shortly before it exploded. Supposed these two guys were paid off.

    Who stands to gain?
     
  7. Gary Thompson

    Gary Thompson dirty dog

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    Shit Jim, I wouldn't post an idea like that for the world to read.
    It would be unAmerican to do something like that. What, just to rise the price at the pump.
    Now who's hit list are you on?
     
  8. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

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    Maybe we'll have the answer if gas prices suddenly hit the $10 per gallon mark... I love conspiracy theories...
     
  9. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

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  10. bconrad

    bconrad Member

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    Those satellite pictures are freakin scary. I wish they'd get the damn thing to stop leaking already.
     
  11. oldskool

    oldskool Guest

    Gee, really? cause I was kinda thinking...... :beathead:
     
  12. Robert Engleheart

    Robert Engleheart Robert

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  13. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

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    Yeah, and the latest lie is that the leak is pumping 798,000 gallons per day into the Gulf. That is only 554 gallons per minute. I call bullshit! It's putting out more than that! I still say it is putting out 4-5 times that amount!
     
  14. Jim Wallace

    Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

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    Anybody here heard of the Athabasca Oil Sands? Know whats going on in Alberta? try googling "Alberta Tar Sands" and read til you can't take it any more.

    http://dirtyoilsands.org/files/CEI-TarSandsMeansHigherOilPrices.pdf

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_Oil_Sands

    Now, suppose that BP successfully tapped into that HUGE deposit under the Gulf. Would that maybe keep the price of oil down enuff to make extracting oil from tar sands uneconomical? Perhaps derail some projects and scuttle billions in investment.

    Or maybe the BP bonus structure was set up such that the guy who said "This is how it's going to be," was hoping that his bonus would be fatter if he used less costly methods and allowed no further delays? Hoping nothing would go wrong...

    Yeah, I know i'd never make it as a sci-fi writer.
     
  15. constructeur

    constructeur Active Member

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    Jim-

    BP was 6 or so weeks behind schedule on this project, and in a rush to get the rig to another location:
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127206227

    Last week Robert Kaluza, BP's head site rep, pleaded the 5th during testimony:
    http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/oil_spill_hearings_bp_man_on_d.html
     
  16. Jim Wallace

    Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

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    constructuer, You must realize that I am merely guessing here. Feeling helpless to do anything, yet still observing in horror. Trying to avoid getting more cynical and pissed off.
    I'm not fishing today because of a toothache.

    Ahhh, I'm going for a walk on the beach.
     
  17. Paul Huffman

    Paul Huffman Lagging economic indicator

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    F-ing Booming!
     
  18. Split Bamboo

    Split Bamboo Member

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    Clearly a Senator from Alaska would receive large donations from the oil industry, just as the Senators from LA and TX receive large contributions. Both Democrat and Republicans take contributions.

    I did not look at this current bill, but the comments made by Sen. Murkowski was that this bill would unfairly burden small oil companies and create an advantage for the large companies. There seems to be some logic in that statement as the large companies can afford to pay huge fines whereas the smaller ones could be put out of business. I think the current limits on liabilities is too low for the large companies and something should be changed. But rushing a bill through Congress at this time won't solve the current mess, so why not take the time to get it right...not that Congress ever really does that.

    The other comment I wanted to make it that there was discussion on a boycott of BP. Boycott can work in some situations, but oil is one of the most fungible products that exists, and a boycott would have little if any affect on BP, but would probably have a negative impact on the independent gas station operators.
     
  19. Go Fish

    Go Fish Language, its a virus

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    To limit liability on big oil is a joke.

    What other businesses have limited
    liability from the US Government?

    Drug companies?
    Auto industry?
    Insurance?
    General Electric?
    General Mills?
    Dildo Manufacturers?


    Just one folks....

    Big Oil.

    As we look at 3 more months or more of oil spewing into the Gulf
    I want to puke. With such a risky well why weren't additional safeguards taken....

    We all know that answer.

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


    Dave
     
  20. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Day 44 now. 31% of the Gulf of Mexico’s fishing area (US regulated) is now closed. Those fishermen, families and communities that their money support are struggling more now than ever.

    BP and the US Government are no longer cozy and doing joint press releases. Has the administration realized that this is a bigger deal than BP wanted us all to believe from the beginning?

    If we trust BP’s low end estimate of 10,000 barrels leaking a day we are now at 440,000 barrels, that is 18,480,000 gallons (nearly 18.5 million barrels). If we trust independent professionals that have no fiscal link to BP and their worst case scenario number of up to 200,000 barrels a day, that is 880,000 barrels or 369,600,000 (over 369 million gallons). Of course these two numbers are way apart; even splitting the difference puts this environmental catastrophe at 194 million gallons of oil spilled. (1 barrel = 42 US gallons)

    There has been oil reported on the shores of barrier islands and land in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and unconfirmed reports of Texas. I guess Florida can expect to be next.

    Has there been an economic impact? I dare anyone to attempt to convince those fishermen, families or communities there has be no noticeable economic impact. Hell, try convincing anyone with a pulse that is not in bed with BP.

    Has there been environmental impact? Of course, the extent of which BP will pay to study for the next decade, or so they say. We won’t know for a while how bad the damage is or for how long it will linger. Some wounds heal faster than others.

    Has there been an impact to the fisheries? With 31% closed, of course there has been. Have they begun to realize the extent of the actual impact on the various species in the gulf? No way, they can’t even stop the damn leak.

    Day 44, still no end in site. Relief well drilling still underway, relief still more than 30 days from reality. The earth is still bleeding. What is next BP? How about from you Mother Nature? Hurricane anyone?
     

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