Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Mark Bové, Nov 12, 2008.
TFG, I'm just going to call it as it is... you're a jack ass. You have no clue as to what you're talking about. You have made this clear through your long term continues statements and obvious limited steelhead experience. Will has caught more fish, on the C-Water, (nates and brats) since August, on a floating line and hair wing, than you have all year on your "gay" tip and large profile fly (I'd bet money). We would love to have you come over here and show us how it’s done; I'll buy the beer. Your statement that is doesn't feel any different between a floating line take and a tip take, and how it really comes down to #'s proves how much you "don't get it" and have never experienced it. You, my friend, are the fool. Since you lack the needed common sense to be embarrassed, I will go ahead and feel the brunt of the embarrassment for you, I’m nice like that. If you have never left the west side, and are cocky, you’re bound to have the mentality you have. Broaden your horizons and discover your how much you have to learn; you will be a better person and steelheader.
Had that come from someone else it might actually mean something, but since your such a tool, I could care less what you say.
I take my scotch straight up, and my native on the surface. :thumb:
Exacty what I expected. Thanks. :thumb:
As far as the takes being the same. I cant say I have ever had a take on a floater that felt like I got hung up followed by head shakes. But since you dont fish a floater I wouldn't expect you would know the difference.
Add my vote with Williams. By the by ... the two Burkie's are going strong!
Very nice Fred. I do miss them both.
In winter I have found over many years that I like to slightly lead the fly with my rod tip, (eventually swimming the fly as it dies in the skinny water) and I like a slight (slight) downstream belly in my fly line as it swings. The fly has been sunk after a long cast, a big mend and a long drift and then it's time to pinch things off and fish. I like leading the fly oh so slightly and I like the slight downstream (very very slight) as I like that tiny bit of acceleration it gives the fly as it starts to swing. It works for me. But then again I have fished heavy tips and flies for a long fucking time as a Westside cat. I used to fish lighter lines, (floaters) and tips on the East Side every year in the Snake, Clearwater and Ronde but even over there there were times I'd go dredging. I do what the water, air temp, and run conditions dictate. I think we all do. Duffer
For those that don't know, William designed/hand built the most beautiful 'spey sized' reels you could ever see/hold. His reels were passed around the/a spey group as though you were being handed the 'Holy Grail.'
His custom built rods? HOY VEY!!!! :beer2::beer2:
William, PM sent.
Having a "Sr. Moment." bawling:bawling::hmmm:
Someone I know who fishes the Deschutes said most of his takes on his floating line were subtle this year. That doesn't matter...A grab is a grab. Each steelhead takes it a little different. Some vicious some not. When using a floating line or a sinking line, the grain amount should be pretty close to the same amount. So when a fish grabs, the "feel" should be the same on top, or underwater.
When fishing a sink tip there is a slight curve in your line. That curve is slack. Slack has nothing to do with how a grab is felt
Dude! Are you serious with this shit? Have you ever caught a fish on a floating line?
Or you actually understand how to fish a sink tip and with experience and feel, allow the "curve" as you call it to stay, to increase it and use the slack to speed up or slow down the fly, or in the right water elimate the curve and fish the swing under tension with a tight line and a fly rising in the water column. Or.......... If you are going to start talking shit about line management, and steelheading at least finish what your started. As for floating lines and weighted flies, all of you eastside studs are full of shit. You are fishing sink tip tactics simple as that. You mend to allow the weight to sink the fly so you can present it at a greater depth than unweighted (same use as sink tip) and then you swing it at depth. Now, floating line, unweighted fly, greased line, skated, dead drifted, swung in surface film, those are dry line tactics and tactics you guys can actually use on fish that travel far enough (over 800 miles) to revert back to trouty behavior. Granted a shitload of them are harchery rats, and nothing more, but still trouty and in the Clearwater fight damn hard.
I have no clue what you guys are talking...no fighting about, but I'd pay money to see this "conversation" happen in a local watering hole after a few rounds. Ding Ding, in this corner the floating line has better takes...in the other corner the sunken fly brings on the head shakes...
This one could be bloody interesting.
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Tight line, skated, swung in the film, with unweighted flies are the tactics I use on the very river that TFG lives on during the summer run. I am speaking from experience, not some guy I know experience from this season on the D. I agree that fishing a weighted fly on a floater is almost identical to fishing a tip.
Steelhead dont need to swim 800 miles to be taken regularly with these tactics. Willingness to come to the surface has more to do with fishing pressure than distance travelled from the ocean.
But hey what do I know
So since I'm hoping to learn from every thread, what about those steelies in winter rivers with depth, color and cold? I've read an awful lot about having to get down to them for success and a lot less about coaxing them up (actually I think I've read the most about the futility of fishing for them and not hooking up). It does seem that location, water, temperature, speed, and clarity all will factor in to the ability to get fish to accept your offering. I can guarantee you that I don't know shit, that is what all of you guys are here for!
For somebody that is hung up on 'gaywings'...I guess your ignorance pretty much spells it out. Nothing to do with anybody forcing anything on you. You can either choose to learn more about the fish. And how to fish for them. Or not. It's up to you.
However, why would you extrapolate your limited knowledge to all steelhead? Is that because these are the only fish you think you know? You are aware that these fish in your favorite locales do come up?
Based on my experience it kinda goes like this. Fishing east of the Cascades, July-Oct, I KNOW they actively rise. So why fish deep? Day in and day you aren't gaining an advantage by fishing big and deep. In the heart of the season, on the Snake and it's tribs, the dryline often spins circles around tips. One prime example really drove this point home. I needed a change of pace...8 years ago made an afternoon trip to the lower Ronde. Fished for just over 2 hours I rose 21 different fish and hooked 14. In one run. Everyone of them on a small hairwing. Fishing across from me was a guy throwing a sink tip. Zip, zero, nada. He eventually asked me what I was doing. He went back to the car and replaced his sink tip with a floater and normal Deschutes size fly. He hooked his first three summer steelhead on a fly that day. All in 15 minutes in the same water he had been covering for an hour with a tip. Now I am not saying this one example always applies. There have been times on the lower Ronde where I have followed my untouched dryline with a tip (and largish fly) and hit several fish. But that is the lower Ronde. So we began a test of sorts on the CW. Person (me) following ran a tip just to see. Exactly 3 fish were picked up behind the dryline. All from the same run. It ended up something like 25:3. This was years ago. Maybe the fish have changed. Also I know this isn't anything more then anecdotal.
When I fish your neck of the woods I know it's mostly a skam show. It can't be denied that your favored set-up will outproduce classic dryline surface methods. However the option of fishing the surface always exists provided one is willing to forgo 'numbers'. But not nearly to the handicap you seem to think a dryline is.