The Swang

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Mark Bové, Nov 12, 2008.

  1. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,491
    Your City ,State
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    It reads like a lot of the debate in this thread was about contrasting apples to oranges rather than apples to apples. At least that's my read. I think I'd find more agreement when discussing the same thing with another angler.

    Coach,

    Ralph and the others caught Skagit steelhead on silk lines with some regularity, i.e., about 0.5 steelhead per full day of fishing according to a conversation I had with him. This was possible by carefully choosing one's water, the old slow runs at Gilligan Ck, Grandy Ck, the Rancheree, and the Birdsview riffle. These were long holding lies about 3.5 to 4' deep and not too fast. You'd hang up in an instant with a modern Hi Speed Hi-D or type VI tip. Ralph also had a series of high density fly patterns that would readily sink when suspended from a gut leader and silk line.

    Some of what I read in this thread appears to assume a hierarchy in ways of bringing steelhead to a fly. I agree with that. There is a string of logic to it. Some anglers are partial to nymphing for steelhead because it is both fun and highly effective. I've no problem with that, but I'd never rank a steelhead taken on a nymph with one taken on a swung fly, or a fly swung high in the water column, or one taken on the surface any more than I'd equate a steelhead taken on drift fishing gear with one taken on fly gear. If steelheading is a numbers game, it makes sense to use gear and techniques that produce numbers. The times and places where floating line techniques and swung flies produce numbers are on inland waters for summer steelhead in the summer and fall. I doubt it's ever the most effective technique on coastal rivers at any season. In the hierarchy of steelhead, the fish that moves the farthest and rises the highest should always rank higher than the steelhead that merely opens its mouth to intercept whatever lure is drifting past. The steelhead that ranks highest for me is the one I catch the way I decide I want to catch it.

    Sg
  2. Will Atlas Guest

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    I am not experienced enough to make a judgement on the subject and most of the PS summers I've hooked have come on sink tips. I wonder though how much truth their is to the perception that west side summer runs do not come as readily to the dryline. Like their eastern cousins they spend almost a full year in freshwater prior to spawning meaning they likely revert back to very trouty behavior. I suspect that the reputation of west side fish is actually based on the hatchery fish we target most of the time during summer, and I believe that the wild deer creek and other populations will readily rise to a dry or lightly dressed pattern in the right conditions. get water temps over 50 and any wild summer steelhead worth its adipose will come up for a fly. But, puget sound rivers are limping along. There was about a month of worthwhile fishing this year before I turned my attentions to far off waters, meaning I probably spent 3 or 4 days fishing a dryline in the puget sound this summer.

    Will
  3. floatinghat Member

    Posts: 294
    near enough to Seattle
    Ratings: +3 / 0
    This thread has given me a head ache, no wonder the splinters can't organize to help our fish.

    William, I am pretty sure I know the fisherman you speak of he fishes "cotter pins" and a run he calls "boat chaser"? You know of whom I speak, he is one of my favorite people to fish behind. I enjoy watching how he works a run and use my methods (swing) behind him. Actually miss running into him on that river, but I moved he is a great guy and angler!

    I try not to value a fish caught by one method over another. That said nate to pond scum about 10:1.
  4. Big Tuna Member

    Posts: 1,958
    Wenatchee, Washington
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    Personally, I like nymphing over swinging anyway. It takes far more skill and when that bobber goes down, it sends a rush of adrenaline like nothing else I've ever experienced;)
  5. Panhandle Active Member

    Posts: 4,103
    Selkirk Mountains, Idaho Panhandle
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    I think the "value thing" between which is better or more admirable is false-- it’s a matter of common sense. When I fish back home (W. Oregon), I primarly fish tips, because the water temps and ornery brats demand it. When I fish over here, where I live now, I fish floaters and intermediates because the fish are aggressive and willing to move through the water column. This is really why the floater take is more rewarding than a tip; the fish is making an assertive/concerted effort to chase the fly. Late fall I move to a tip of course (cold water temps and slowed metabolism means bring it to them). Why would I fish a tip when I can catch fish on a floater, simple as that; it’s more enjoyable. By the way, I'm headed over to the Klick and Sandy. I'll be armed with a type III swinging rod and nymph rod because it the smart thing to do. I think the beef here is that people talk out of there asses. They make statements based on theory. In reality they have no experience to back it up, which results in ridiculous bullshit.
  6. TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

    Posts: 870
    Vancouver, WA.
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    Haha
  7. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,491
    Your City ,State
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    Pan, I don't know who's talking out their asses, but a theory, if it's a good theory, is based on experience, not hearsay. But I wouldn't be surprised if the bullshit factor exceeds the experience factor here.

    Sg
  8. sothereiwas Member

    Posts: 304
    Issaquah, WA
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    Even though I fish a dry line a lot. Admittedly a sink tip takes more skill to fish for one reason. With a floater a depth control is not a factor.
  9. HauntedByWaters Active Member

    Posts: 2,748
    Bellingham
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    Oh brother.....

    "There's a shitstorm brewing Randy! Better haul in the jib so it doesn't get all covered in shit!"
  10. sothereiwas Member

    Posts: 304
    Issaquah, WA
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    A brilliant an productive response. Well put
  11. HauntedByWaters Active Member

    Posts: 2,748
    Bellingham
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    Just wait and see. :D
  12. sothereiwas Member

    Posts: 304
    Issaquah, WA
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  13. Steelie Mike Active Member

    Posts: 1,600
    Camas, WA
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    I totally agree with the exception of fishing larger iron hooks to a certain extent can put you slightly more below the water column. You can also use an intermediate poly and obtain the same water level without swimming a larger fly. In my experience, the takes with an intermediate and dry are very similar as well. This is off course dependent on the type of water you are fishing.

    4 pages and 1928 views, good stuff.
  14. fullerfly Calvin Fuller

    Posts: 533
    Sandpoint, ID
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    I think all you guys are looking into it a little bit too much. Just throw it out there and let it swang.
  15. Mark Bové Chasin tail

    Posts: 520
    Spokane
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    Oh Amen Brother!!!iagreeiagreeiagreeiagreeiagreeiagreeiagreeiagree
  16. sothereiwas Member

    Posts: 304
    Issaquah, WA
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    :thumb: :rofl:
  17. Hal Eckert Member

    Posts: 615
    West GLs
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    Cutting to the chaste, I think I am a mellow J guy for the last 28 years or so, sink tips most of the time out here in the western GLs.

    :thumb::D
  18. Ryan Buccola I ain't broke but brother I am badly bent

    Posts: 230
    Bend Oregon
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    fishing sucks