The ultimate fishing sidearm?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Kent Lufkin, Nov 12, 2007.

  1. "Hell, if I have a gun what do I have to be afraid of?"
     
  2. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    "So, do you feel lucky? Do you?"

    Oh wait, that wasn't here :rofl:

    K
     
  3. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

    Is it true than in Washington, you don't need a CWP to transport to or carry while fishing?
     
  4. Mike T

    Mike T Active Member

    Are you for real? Sheesh, I need to start using smiley faces more often...
     
  5. bankwalker

    bankwalker Member


    sometimes giving up there fish is not going to get a bear to leave you alone. a warning shot will 99% of the time scare it off. if it doesnt and that bear is threatening your life, then it is much better to be packing a gun that can get the job done insteead of that little 45acp or 9mm.

    and yes if i am fishing and a bear shows up and decides to charge at me IT WILL GET SHOT! and i will make sure i have a gun that will do the job when needed.
    that goes for a tweeker aswell. if i have to pull my gun out on someone i am more then willing to use it. BUT that is always the last thing that will happen.

    using your gun is always the last thing you should do, no matter what. weather it be a bear, dog, deer (unless hunting season lol) person, cougar, GIANT STEELHEAD!!! i had one smack me in the face with his tail last year lol
     
  6. I was serious.

    Shooting wildlife out of season or without a license is illegal (poaching is the term, I believe, and with all the anti-poaching threads on this board, it should be a subject we all are sensitive to).

    Given the extremely low frequency of attacks on humans by wildlife in this state (or in the contiguous states, for that matter), there is a tremendous burden of proof on the shooter if he/she claims shooting a wild animal was for personal safety. It is likely that some evidence of physical attack will be needed to avoid criminal charges. "Officer, he was threatening to take my steelhead" probably won't cut it.

    In the past 50+ years, during which time I've spent absolutely as much time in the out of doors pursuing a wide variety of recreational activities all over the North America (an other parts of the world), and have had numerous encounters (some quite close) with bear, moose, bison and other critters that could do me harm, I've never been in a situation where being armed would have been helpful, nor have I personally known anyone who has been in such a situation. By saying this, I'm not denying it can and does happen, but only that the probability of such an occurrence happening is so low as to approach zero. For that reason alone, I wouldn't consider carrying something so heavy and useless as a handgun. If I need ballast for wading a fast-moving stream, I can always pick up a couple streamside boulders.

    That said, I'm not going to argue that any of you should not carry a handgun if you are legally entitled to and want to. I own guns and have hunted since I was a teenager. It's just not for me and I find most of the arguments here quite specious. Handguns are really pretty amazing technological instruments, as is an iPod (which I also don't carry, but know folks who wouldn't leave home without) and I can understand why people might want to own one for that reason alone.

    So, my first entry in this thread was a joke (about carrying a handgun to subdue large fish), the second was to respond that no one else had said anything in this thread about their use as fishing 'tools,' and my third was to raise the serious issue that defending your food (whether it is a steelhead you have just caught or your backpacking supplies in your camp) by shooting a bear is totally unjustified, unless your own safety is at stake (which I contend is almost never going to be the case, and the statistics on attacks by wildlife, as a probability relative to the number of encounters, suggests is true).

    If I wanted to be provocative, I'd use the teddybear analogy, but I typically don't try to be provocative on this board, because it is difficult to do so in a measured way on an anonymous board with people you don't know.

    results may vary.

    Cheers,
    Dick
     
  7. Bankwalker -
    I was typing when you submitted your reply, so I'll just add that I support you in using your weapon to defend your life. I would only say that you probably can/will live a very long and active outdoor life (unless something more mundane, like cancer or a car wreck, gets you first) without ever having the opportunity to do so. If you calculate the amount of effort you will sustain over that period lugging that piece around with you, you might also reach the conclusion that it isn't worth it.
    Dick
     
  8. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Sorry man that was posted after Phlyphisher made the rambo comment. :rofl: I do agree, that is not a very good outlook on carrying a firearm and I suspect it was made in jest.
     
  9. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Well Said iagree

    I have been cornered by a charging bear, granted it was intentional and was during a bear hunt during bear season where bear "dog driving" was legal. I was mentally prepared for that situation and let me tell you, the pucker factor was still a 13.2 on a scale of 1 to 10. If any of you guys are carrying to protect yourself from a bear, ya'll better be shooting a significant amount at least once a week. If you are carrying to protect yourself from a cougar, forget it, you'll be as good as cat food by the time you even realize a cat is stalking you.

    I cary an old no 7-20-80pf in my holster these days unless I'm hunting. That would be a 20 oz flask of jack daniels. ;)

    Kent: :rofl: :rofl:
     
  10. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    For all practical purposes, no not really. Get a CWP and save yourself the hassle and legal bills.
     
  11. bankwalker

    bankwalker Member

    oh i know. i dont pack a gun. imo the likelyness of ever needing one when in the field weather it be from animal or person is very slim. you have a better chance of breaking a world record for w/e fish you are targeting.

    BUT imo if you are gonna pack a gun for defense you better hope to god it can get the job done on w/e you are carrying it as defense for.

    places like bluecreek, hoodsport,sky,etc etc when 90% of the things you will need to defend yourself against is people there is no need for a big gun.

    places like the upper reaches of northwest rivers, like green, sky, snoqualmie forks, etc etc where encounters with big game animals THAT could attack you need to carry a gun that will get the job done. a 45acp even though it is a 45cal will not get the job done in most cases (very wimpy round) i see alot of people who carry 9mm or 40cal even 38sp and think they are protected well when in the field against bears and other big game animals that may threaten their livelyhood. IMO that is very disrespectfull to the animal which "MIGHT" attack.
     
  12. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    RCW 9.41.050
    Carrying firearms.
    (1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

    (b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

    (3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

    (4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.


    [2003 c 53 § 28; 1997 c 200 § 1; 1996 c 295 § 4; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 405; 1982 1st ex.s. c 47 § 3; 1961 c 124 § 4; 1935 c 172 § 5; RRS § 2516-5.]

    NOTES:


    Intent -- Effective date -- 2003 c 53: See notes following RCW 2.48.180.


    Finding -- Intent -- Severability -- 1994 sp.s. c 7: See notes following RCW 43.70.540.


    Effective date -- 1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.


    Severability -- 1982 1st ex.s. c 47: See note following RCW 9.41.190.


    RCW 9.41.060
    Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
    The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:

    (1) Marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens or their deputies, or other law enforcement officers of this state or another state;

    (2) Members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves, when on duty;

    (3) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed pistol;

    (4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;

    (5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state;

    (6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;

    (7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;

    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;
    (9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or

    (10) Law enforcement officers retired for service or physical disabilities, except for those law enforcement officers retired because of mental or stress-related disabilities. This subsection applies only to a retired officer who has: (a) Obtained documentation from a law enforcement agency within Washington state from which he or she retired that is signed by the agency's chief law enforcement officer and that states that the retired officer was retired for service or physical disability; and (b) not been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of a crime making him or her ineligible for a concealed pistol license.


    [2005 c 453 § 3; 1998 c 253 § 2; 1996 c 295 § 5; 1995 c 392 § 1; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 406; 1961 c 124 § 5; 1935 c 172 § 6; RRS § 2516-6.]

    NOTES:


    Severability -- 2005 c 453: See note following RCW 9.41.040.


    Finding -- Intent -- Severability -- 1994 sp.s. c 7: See notes following RCW 43.70.540.


    Effective date -- 1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.
     
  13. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Yes, I know the law and it is vauge. Define outdoor activity and traveling to or from one? I can think of 20 thousand ways an anti gun nut DA can twist that one to get a conviction or a "Super Cop" hasseling someone even though they are in the right. Just fork up the few bucks for a CWP and avoid having to get an attorney involved. They aren't any where near as cheap as a CWP.
     
  14. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    If I am walking along side a river with rubber pants on and a fly rod in hand I think it would be safe to assume I am participating in some sort of fishing activity. Some might think the rubber pants are a bit strange but it is legal for me to carry a concealled weapon inside those rubber pants. An anti-gun DA will have his day with anyone who carries a gun whether they have the required permits or are participating in legal outdoor activities.
     
  15. Mike T

    Mike T Active Member

    There is a legal difference between concealed carry and open carrying while in the act of an outdoor recreational activity.

    To conceal carry you need a CPL, period. Under your waders would be concealed carry.

    Anyone can open carry in the state of WA. Is it a good idea is another kettle of fish, I personally think not.

    A civilian can not have a gun of any type in a National Park. National Forests are okay.

    Without a CPL you should transport your gun with it unloaded and the ammunition seperated from the gun. With a CPL a loaded gun should be on your person, this used to be law, I'm not sure if it still is. Either way common sense says you don't want a loaded gun outside of your control at any time.

    If in doubt please ask a law enforcement officer. Making an honest mistake and defending yourself against felony gun charges won't be cheap or fun. Getting convicted and losing your rights would be a tragedy.
     
  16. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked


    Try walking across the fryes parking lot on your way to the cedar with a loaded 44 magnum hanging off of your hip. Get the CWP and protect yourself. Also it is not a good Idea for anyone to know you are carrying. It could unnecessarily escalate a situation or make others around you uncomfortable. :beer2:
     
  17. Peter Pancho

    Peter Pancho Active Member

    Glock 23 even gets heavy after a couple hrs of fishing. I'll just carry a couple .50 cal bullets and take em' out like "David and Goliath" hehe.
     
  18. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    We could argue this 'til the cows come home. The bottom line is; it is legal to carry a weapon in the State of Washington while ingaged in outdoor activities.
     
  19. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Mike,

    Exception 8 does not stipulate that a weapon carried while engaging in an outdoor recreational activity be carried openly. The exceptions are prefaced by the statement, "The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:. . ." Since RCW 9.41.050 states that pistols be carried openly, condition 8 provides an exception from that requirement.

    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;​

    Your last paragraph above is probably the best piece of wisdom anyone has shared on this entire thread.

    K
     
  20. Snake

    Snake tryin' not to get too comfortable

    This is one of the best threads I've seen in a long time.

    It started as an observation about the utility of the Taurus Judge as a decent backcountry/fishing sidearm (nice going, Kent..), and it has jumped to many other topics, including many that could easily dissolve into verbal fisticuffs (gun ownership/usage, shoot-to-kill vs. shoot-to-wound, concealed vs. open carry, justification for lethal force against rattlesnakes, etc).

    But everyone has kept a civil tone, and there are definitely some gems of wisdom in here.

    My own take:

    -It's extremely unlikely you will ever encounter a situation where a gun is necessary, but that's a sliding scale depending on where you fish/backpack/live, and how aware you are of your surroundings.

    -Guns are heavy.

    -Maintaining proficiency with a firearm requires a LOT of practice.

    -The laws pertaining to concealed/open carry, justifiable use of lethal force, and hunting regulations are fairly complex.

    Remember the old "Goofus and Gallant" strip in Highlights magazine?

    Goofus:

    : Doesn't do any research, and buys a crappy gun in a pawnshop that isn't suited (in caliber or style) for his primary need. He just wants a gun to feel tough, or because he wants to protect his family.

    : Doesn't learn about gun safety, and never practices shooting skills. He just loads it up, and puts it in the dresser drawer. If he's really dumb, he carries it illegally concealed, fantasizing about vigilante justice.

    : Brags/talks about about the gun he's carrying, even to strangers. In the worst case, actually brandishes the gun unneccessarily (and illegally!).

    : Knows nothing about gun laws in his state.

    Gallant:

    :Takes the time to identify his major needs/justification for a firearm (and decides whether he really NEEDS a gun, and WILL accept the responsibility of ownership), and researches different gun models before he buys one. He keeps his family involved in the whole process.

    :Takes a class about gun safety and firearm selection for specific circumstances. This can be done BEFORE buying a firearm, to help decision-making.

    :Understands the laws concerning gun ownership. Takes additional classes to understand when he can/can't use a gun, and provide legal evidence of that knowledge.

    :Takes even more classes to learn how to shoot under stressful situations.

    :Shoots his gun on a regular basis, using "real-life" scenarios. (Whatever that is in his world.......)

    :Is discreet. He knows the law, and has a legal permit to carry concealed. But if you met him on a river, you would never know that he has a .44 under his waders, because he doesn't advertise it.


    I don't know what is right for you, and I won't presume to tell any of you whether it's right or not. Whatever you do, if you decide to carry a gun, don't be a 'Goofus".