Thinking about getting into Spey

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Bagman, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. Bagman Active Member

    Posts: 377
    Poulsbo WA
    Ratings: +91 / 0
    I'm new to fly fishing 3 months so far. I've fished quit a bit when the Slivers were in and am now having trouble with my elbo. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or I'm just old? I'm thinking overhead Spey casting maybe the answer to my elbo problems. I have a older used Loop Evotec 9/13 reel and was thinking about picking up a 8wt Spey rod to see if that would help. Anyone else have the elbo problem? Does overhead Spey casting help?
    Bob Triggs likes this.
  2. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,544
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,506 / 9
    I think it can help. There is some learning curve but a sore elbow or shoulder can benefit from some two handed relief.
    Bob Triggs and fredaevans like this.
  3. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,584
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,707 / 0
    Bagman,

    What sort of elbow problems? Tendonistis? Is so, it doesn't matter whether you cast a single and or two handed fly rod. Either one can exacerbate tendonitis. The key is to learn to cast decently. Not expert, but decent. I'm not an expert caster, but I'm a pretty good single hand caster, and can cast all day with no elbow tendonitis issue. When I was learning to Spey cast, the harder I worked at it, the worse it affected my elbow. As I've gotten better, the problem seldom arises any more.

    Learning to cast decently is far more important than the number of hands you use on a fly rod if elbow tendonitis ails you.

    Sg
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  4. Bagman Active Member

    Posts: 377
    Poulsbo WA
    Ratings: +91 / 0
    As I'm not a Dr. and I have not been to see a Dr. I have no idea what my pain is from. All I know is when I move my elbow back and forth a few times it catches and then cracks. Once that happens it doesn't hurt for awhile. Do you know what that is?
  5. stilly stalker Tuna sniffer

    Posts: 1,800
    Carlsbad, CA
    Ratings: +431 / 0
    I get that. Partial dislocation
  6. Yard Sale Active Member

    Posts: 368
    The Hood
    Ratings: +156 / 0
    If you use your bottom hand properly Spey casting it very easy on the arms. Your dominate hand just creates a pivot point.
  7. Bagman Active Member

    Posts: 377
    Poulsbo WA
    Ratings: +91 / 0
    From what I have read two hand overhead casting is easier on more then just your arms. I've also read that if you are just going to use the rod for overhead casting you don't really want a Spey 14 foot rod. This is also what Ed has told me. So can I take my 10' 6wt rod with a fighting butt the one Redington calls a B handle I think. Put on my reel with a 8wt Rio Outbound and try some two handed overhead casting?

    In my web search I read that in the UK they don't have a switch rod. The have a single hand rod. Then the have two handed rods some shorter some longer.
  8. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,544
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,506 / 9
    Try that single hander with the fighting butt and see what you think. Try all the lines you've got or can get a hold of and find the best feel for your cast.
  9. Steve Saville Active Member

    Posts: 2,522
    Tacoma, WA
    Ratings: +351 / 1
    You don't need much of a butt to hang onto when two hand casting so that might work. The key is to get some two hand lessons so you are casting correctly and using the bottom hand as opposed to th e upper hand. I don't know your location but if you are in the Seattle/TAcoma area, you can get lessons free every Saturday on the Snoqualmie at Carnation. It's called A Day on the River and Aaron Reimer gives lessons every Saturday from 9:00 to noon, river accomodating, of course. Sometimes the water is too high.

    Just a note, I was fishing a southern river recently with my spey rod and wishing I had a single hander with to do some single hand spey casting. The vegetation was too close behind yet the 12'6" rod seemed to be a bit long for the size of the river. I had two 9'0" 8 wt, two piece rod kits in the garage that had been collecting dust for about six years. I dragged one out last week and added four cork rings above the butt and moved the handle up that same distance. In essance, I have a two handed, 8 wt., 9' switch rod. I have the wraps done now with only the expoxy left. I am really curious how it will work. Maybe it won't and I will have wasted the kit but then it was very inexpensive to begin with and I need the practice building rods so there will be no big loss.
  10. Bagman Active Member

    Posts: 377
    Poulsbo WA
    Ratings: +91 / 0
    I'm a little far from Seattle but I just may take that drive some Sat.I met Ed Call for the first time yesterday. We spent an hour or two at the waters edge I learned a lot from him in that short time. Which is not hard when your as new at this stuff as I am. Ed dropped so much information on me in such a short time my head was spinning. If I can keep half of it strate I will be happy. A big part of my problem with all of this is not only am I new to the whole fly fishing thing but I'm also new to WA State as well, and I know no one up here. The guys at Peninsula Outfitters in Poulsbo have been my only contacts. I know I'm driving them crazy with all my dumb questions, but they have been very helpful.
  11. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,767
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,785 / 0
    You are at the right place. Keep asking your questions. You will start to meet more people into fly fishing as you spend more time on the water and if you think you learned something from Mr. Call wait until you meet someone that actually knows what they are talking about.
    wadin' boot and Ed Call like this.
  12. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,544
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,506 / 9
    Good point! But he's met a few of those folks too! It seems Bagmans interest in switch is really for the beach salmon shooting line assault. Not true spey like many river fishermen. I think he's learned these switch or baby Spey rods can do this job well.
  13. golfman65 Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    Check out Henrik Mortensens video's and books..

    The way he underhand casts involves the smallest use of your arms, I have practiced it awhile ago not using my arms at all and it works, (kind of helps teach you the motion) He also shows and explains two hand overhead casting, which is very common with spey rods overseas but rarely explained properly or used over here..
    which by the way is a shame as it works damn well...
  14. Stonefish Triploid, Humpy & Seaplane Hater

    Posts: 3,861
    Pipers Creek
    Ratings: +1,264 / 1
    Since you are only three months into flyfishing, I'd think getting the fundamentals of single handed casting and fishing down first might be of better benefit to you.
    You are at a phase right now that everyone goes through when they first start.....that is over thinking things.
    You probably still have a lot of questions regarding single hand fishing. Now add spey or switch to the mix. Perhaps trying to be proficient at one aspect of the sport might be a good choice before moving on to the next.
    Before investing in new lines, rods etc, ask yourself how much you'd really plan to use a spey or switch rod. They have there place, but they aren't the magic cure for everything from ailments to fishing success.

    Good luck with whatever you decide.
    SF
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  15. Bagman Active Member

    Posts: 377
    Poulsbo WA
    Ratings: +91 / 0
    Stonefish, you are correct. I do need to learn the fundamentals. Ed was able to point out what could be the cause of my elbow pain. As soon as it stops hurting I will go out and see if I can stop laying my elbow back so far. I had stopped doing that but fell back into it. Sometimes bad habits are the hardest to break. Ed also asked me a few questions and was able to tell me I was not wanting to Spey cast but two hand overhead cast. You are also correct Im over thinking it. I have spent my whole working life over thinking everything. That's what kept me alive and unhurt. It is hard to break that habit as well. Even though I leason to what I'm told I don't always remember it.
    yuhina likes this.
  16. speyfisher Active Member

    Posts: 1,067
    State of Jefferson U.S.A.
    Ratings: +139 / 3
    Lock the wrist. Lock the elbow. Cast from the shoulder. Think of hammering a nail into a fence. If casting hurts you, it's usually because you are doing something wrong. It doesn't take a lot of muscle to lay out a nice cast, if you do it right.
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  17. yuhina Tropical member

    Posts: 2,320
    Boston-Idaho
    Ratings: +43 / 0
    Good analogy! speyfisher
    It remind me that casting style Henrik teaches. less hand movement and use the body for power application. It is very interesting discussion here, I just happened to teach a 5 feet tall girl spey casting. No fly fishing experience whatsoever, few times out and she is enjoying the rhythm of spey casting. Modern lines are just getting more and more user friendly, if I have to add... Mark

    Ian Broadie likes this.
  18. speyfisher Active Member

    Posts: 1,067
    State of Jefferson U.S.A.
    Ratings: +139 / 3
    Yes, I learned a lot from Henrik. Not just from the DVD, but when he came to the Sandy Clave a few years ago. When guys like this are giving demo's, I want to be right up front where I can take in every nuance of what they are doing.

    Women are a kick to teach fly casting. Especially raw beginners. They have no pre-conceived notions of what to do. Nor do they have any mucle memory, or bad habits. They just do like you tell them. Bam, they got it!
    yuhina likes this.
  19. Ian Broadie Flyfishing is so "Metal"

    Posts: 670
    Kirkland, Washington
    Ratings: +57 / 0
    Yes, most correct.
  20. Bagman Active Member

    Posts: 377
    Poulsbo WA
    Ratings: +91 / 0
    I took my 6wt 10' Redington out in the yard with my bug reel with 9wt Outbound line. I put out a lot of line with no false cast. My elbow did not bother me at all afterwords. I know I have a problem with my casting form but this sure felt good. I'm not trying to look good just fish and not hurt afterwords. If I fish for two hrs and hurt for 4 days what's the fun in that.