Tipping Point

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by miyawaki, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. Chris DeLeone

    Chris DeLeone Active Member

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    Fin you and Bellows can have your little spat - keep my quotes and items I put in this thread out of it please - I like to stay on topic.

    There is a philosophy that some anglers have - that if we keep off the water, let Puget Sound heal the fish will come back. I disagree with that, we are never going to see huge returns back to any of our rivers in many systems. When NMFS put out their report on Puget Sound - one aspect of the Steelheads decline was not the CnR fishery. Habitat and Marine Survival are the two major contributors to declining populations in Puget Sound. In 2009 we had 2500 fish back, we fished over that run, four years later we had 8600 fish return, we got good marine survival with the 2/2 salt component of the run, those fish doubled the forecast. So a responsible CnR fishery is not going to drive the fish to extinction.
     
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  2. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    For those that think we should not have a C&R season on the Skagit we invite you to attend the Commissioners' meeting in Olympia on April 12 and present your objections for such a fishery to the commission. Put some action into your words. Otherwise you are just blowing so much hot air.

    Chris, thank you for the ignore feature on this board.
     
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  3. Pat Lat

    Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

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    I don't think finluver is a troll, I think he just likes to argue the same point over and over even though people are bringing scientific data that supercedes his opinion. I really don't even think he actually cares any more he just wants to argue and there's only one other person on this forum helping him out.

    But what I really can't stand is how he cuts the code when he quotes someone. Just effin hit reply and leave it that already.
     
  4. flybill

    flybill Purveyor of fine hackle, wine & cigars!

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    Nice posts Dele and KerryS!!
     
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  5. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

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    PAT LAT...my REPLY feature DOES NOT WORK. So Much For Your EFF'IN Post!

    Notice how I didn't copy n paste your BS ;)
     
  6. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    My reply feature doesn't work either so I have to cut n paste people's quotes. Luver's posts aren't worth either.
     
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  7. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    hopefully everybody will mind thier manners at the event, this shit althou entertaining accomplishs nothing
     
  8. Pat Lat

    Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

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    Well finluver maybe you should take the hint that your computer is giving you and stop replying then.
     
  9. Eyejuggler

    Eyejuggler Beech Nut

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  10. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

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    Chris DeLeone...

    My apologies to you.

    This comment, "Habitat and Marine Survival are the two major contributors to declining populations in Puget Sound.", is something I have been contending as well (here in Oregon), during the "hatchery" debates; yet when this is presented, it is vehemently rebuked.

    Why do you suppose that is?
     
  11. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    This thread deserves a civil discourse. Let's ensure we all give it what it deserves. Stay on topic or start your own different topic thread.
     
  12. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    Opportunity. It's the common thread between Occupy Skagit and what I think finluvers position is. In many places, hatcheries are required for anglers to have opportunity. This is especially true in the Columbia river basin and Puget Sound. I like opportunity. I don't think that it's helpful to attack other anglers when they ask for fishing opportunities. We all want opportunity.

    The one river system where a hatchery isn't really needed for angling opportunity is the Skagit. For whatever reason it has not suffered the same decline in the last 20 years that other PS rivers have. There are a couple river due north that may be in the same boat but we really don't know. The river itself is able to provide enough fish to have a full C&R season. The hatchery run, small and inneficient as it is, provides fish that fullfill the needs for a majority of the native fishery.

    It's a whole lot more complex than hatchery vs. wild. We'd all do well to attempt to have a civil discussion with respect towards each other and an open mind towards the science that we do have. I struggle with being civil as much as anyone, but what I do know is that we all really want opportunity. It's unfortunate that the politics of these matters have turned some anglers angainst others, hopefully it is understood that OS is pushing for opportunity for all anglers.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  13. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

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    "Opportunity" is Fish & Games' buzzword.

    The "goal" is to be able to fish and have one to eat...I believe this is called by another buzzword that the conservationist and government worker use... that being "sustainable".

    If I just want an "opportunity" to wet a line, there are many bluegill to be had. "Sustainable" is just a train wreck by another name.
     
  14. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Basic disagreement in what one or another group wants from a fishery. The chasm between the two sides will never be narrowed. It has been an active fault for decades. Again, if you don't feel the Skagit River should have a C&R season then show up at Olympia and state your case. The Occupy Skagit movement will be successful in achieving its goal of a basin by basin management plan for the Salish Sea rivers and the reinstatement of the spring catch and release season on the Skagit. Note, I said will be successful. The only way anyone will be able to stop Occupy Skagit will be to lobby the WDFW commissioners to not allow this season. Good luck.
     
  15. rory

    rory Go Outside

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    My goal is not to be able to fish and have one to eat. My goal is to be able to fish and let the fish go. I have to catch one first.
     
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  16. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    The premise that not being able to fish the Skagit will reduce the numbers of us who care about and act on behalf of the resource is overstated IMO. Those who love the sport, the rivers, and the fish are genetically predisposed to carry that through their lives. I do so whether I fish for them or not.
     
  17. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    I saved the gas and the planet from further global warming (err, climate change) and did it via e-mails.
     
  18. Pat Lat

    Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

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    Yes FSA, and it would be nice if we have places to instill that same love of fishing and conservation in the next generation.
    I'm just glad that there are people that love the sport and their home river system so much that they are trying to do every thing they can to get the river open for catch and release, for all of us. Thank you guys for doing something.
     
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  19. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    That can be done w/o fishing over endangered fish.
     
  20. _WW_

    _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

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    First of all, WDFW did not close the river to fishing. The Feds did that. Yes they had a reason, and when they allow it to reopen they will have a reason for that also. I will also understand exactly why they made both decisions.

    I don't see how this pertains to Occupy Skagit since these very fish you speak of will NOT be in the Skagit to be fished for, but in another Puget Sound river that will be closed to fishing. I'm sure you were trying to make some point but I'll be damned if I know what it is.

    I would say it is rebuked because people don't want to accept responsibility for altering the habitat. Most folks think all a fish needs is water. Not quite that simple. However, that is only conjecture because I am as unfamiliar with your situation as you are with the Skagit.

    Those statements are of course only opinions held by you. Opportunity, goal, and sustainable mean different things to different folks. For instance:

    The 'goal' of Occupy Skagit is to provide an 'opportunity' to fish C&R for steelhead when the escapement 'goal' determined to provide for the run to be 'sustainable' has been forecast for the upcoming season.