Tribal netting

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by MasterAnglerTaylor, Jan 23, 2009.

  1. Anyone know when they net the forks area rivers? Is there somewhere i can look to see when they do it?
  2. The link I posted was updated today but looks incomplete. No Hoh netting scheduled, yah right? I believe they pull the nets on the Quillayute at noon on Thursday.
  3. iagree It doesn't look very accurate, but it's still an awesome resource, I didn't think they had that online.
  4. The waters that I fish only exhibit the effect of tribal netting on days ending with the letter y.
  5. iagree
  6. naw, you guys have this all wrong. the indians are protecting the resource for future generations! don't you pay attention to any of the PR??????
  7. Actually, we've all got it wrong.

    The Indians have been driving the fish to extinction for thousands of years, a few fish at a time. We European-Americans increased the population and introduced technology to hasten the process.

    With any luck, we'll have those native fish gone in another generation or two and we can quit arguing about who gets the credit, because in about fifty years no one will remember or care, and we'll have virtual reality streams flowing through our living rooms and we can stock them from a menu of extinct species.
  8. There is netting going on in the Puyallup right now. I suspect also in the Duwamish, but can't confirm. I believe tribes are constrained to what they agree to be constrained to.

    The tribes refer to themselves as the "fish people" and don't like hearing that they are thought of as damaging the resource. If there is a way to compel them to a conservation stance, it will be through public awareness and pressure.

    My $.02
  9. The indians do alot of gill netting down there in Florida huh?:beathead:
  10. iagree Do like the idea of virtual fishing, I'll program mine so that the fish bite anything.
  11. My sincere apologies for relocating without giving you proper notification. If you stop hitting your head like that the swelling should subside in time.
  12. Perhaps if people like you would quit with the same lame assed tired whine about the indians fishing I wouldn't have to use the stupid little smilie head beatng against the wall.
  13. :ray1: an amendment to the State Constitution in Florida essentially ended all inshore commercial netting, with very few exceptions, in the late 80's. This was accomplished by a grassroots movement spurred on by the collapse of the inshore sport fisheries.

    The Coastal Conservation Association was instrumental and led the way in this effort...and now FL and the Gulf states have rebounding, thriving sport fisheries. We could do the same here if we quit whining and get off our asses.

    Washington is the last state in the lower 48 that has tribal netting and commercial gillnetting, with the exception of Oregon's Columbia share.
    CCA PNW is committed to reforming the fisheries here and has an amazing track record of success.

    join CCA. Let's get it on.

  14. Mike,

    Your're dead wrong. The tribes had been fishing the runs sutainably for thousands of years. If they had been fishing them to extinction they wouldn't have been able to use the resource for over 9,000 years. It wasn't really until the europeans got here that the runs began to be over exploited. Check your facts next time.
  15. iagree We've got to get moving on this and put some pressure on our legislators. I think we need to get the collapse of our fisheries into the public eye more. If we could get coverage of it on TV and radio there'd be a lot more support for our fisheries. If we just keep talking to ourselves, we're preaching to the choir.

    It's amazing, to me, how many people aren't educated about the plight of our fisheries in this state. I'd bet that the majority of people in the western half of the state are even aware of the massive seasonal migrations of salmon and steelhead. It's also amazing that it's not a bigger public and political issue in this state. Hell, we live in a "blue state", you'd think we would be able to get some conservation legislation passed.
  16. Its the dams....
  17. Let me type this slow so that it is clearly understood. Select Washington Indian tribes have fishing rights that are part of FEDERAL treaties between the U.S. government and individual tribes. The members of those tribes have RIGHTS to fish; if you are not a member of a treaty tribe, you do not. Those treaty rights were defined functionally by the Boldt decision (see for a brief review) in 1974 to mean that the tribes can harvest half the available fish and shellfish. Washington state has NO ability to restrict fishing by the tribes (some similar decisions in Oregon); Washington state has gotten its *$&$(#^ handed to it in federal court multiple times since the Boldt decision. The federal courts have decreed that both WA DFW and the tribes are co-managers of these resources. Some amount of harvest horse-trading goes on between DFW and the tribes at the North of Falcon process (, but I expect not much trust. The co-managers do have areas of conflict in the acceptable sustainable harvest on specific river systems and specific stocks; the tribes biologists and the states biologists disagree. If you think that the CCA has the ability to change a FEDERAL treaty, I have some bank stocks that I think you might be interested in.

    The tribes are a heterogeneous mix. Some work cooperatively with other tribes and the wider society, others have historical emnity against non-native society and even other tribes. Some tribes are well-managed, others are kleptocracies. The tribes hire their own biologists, manage their own hatcheries, and govern the activities (kind of....) of their members. However, there is often considerable overlap and conflict among tribes in their "usual and accustomed" fishing areas and each tribe acts independently according to its own perceived best interests.

    CCA or other pressure groups might be able to convince Wa State to outlaw the use of gillnets in state waters by non-treaty fishers; the last time that was tried by referendum in 1995, it went down to defeat (Initiative 640: 57.5% against, 42.5% for). Of course, on the Columbia River banning gill nets would mean convincing Oregon state to go along too. And any agreement by Washington and Oregon to limit gill netting would do NOTHING to stop the interception of mixed stocks by sport and commercial fishers in Alaska and B.C.; of course, we never see these fish that are taken off the top of the returns, do we.

    At one point, I had some hopes that the pressures of the Endangered Species Act could be a powerful hammer to modify the activities of tribal fishers. However, both the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the Fish and Wildlife Service are in the same branch of government, the Department of the Interior, and the same lawyers work for both. You cannot use the same lawyers as plaintiff and defendant. If an outside group were to sue to enforce the Endangered Species Act, it is likely that a complete end to fishing on endangered stocks would be implemented against non-treaty commercial and sports fishers before the RIGHTS of the tribes were suspended. (And I'm not that sure that a treaty wouldn't trump a law. I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn once).

    A possible lever to influence the activities of the tribes may be through the Federal appropriations process for other tribal activities. While some tribes are flush with casino funds, others are still dependent of federal funds for a variety of activities on their reservations. This means using carrots (dollars) rather than a stick (regulations). This will require trust, something in very short supply when discussing fishing allocations.

  18. dams and clearcuts
  19. I don't care if they want to keep fish for subsistence, fine, they've been subsistence fishing for 10,000 years I'm not gonna stop them or tell them they shouldn't. I think though that its total bull that they can commercial fish for endangered species in river.

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