Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Trout Master, Mar 30, 2011.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/plants/triploid/ , Nice to see the lower crab creek chain off the list
WTF. why are they putting them in Rattlesnake Lake?
Nice, they filled up my local pond...:clown:
Lake Cassidy ? why. its a mud hole. at least a dozen better lakes than that one.
How can you tell them apart from rainbows? and are they a high bred ?
That is odd as it will wipe out all those smaller planters from before, I could understand with it prior to going CNR, but do they hope to make it into some potential trophy trout lake with subsequent plantings?
I presume you are asking if triploids are hybrids. They are not. Triploids are so-called because they have three sets of chromosomes instead of the normal two (diploid). They are created by subjecting fertilized eggs to a thermal shock process causing the development of this third set of chromosomes which renders them sterile. The development of sexual organs is an enormous drain on the physical resources of a normal diploid trout and not having to undergo those processes allows the triploid to continue to grow and at a faster rate than a normal trout.
After the eggs are hatched all of the males are culled and only females are planted. So far as I know, all of the triploids planted here are rainbows and, except for their extra set of chromosomes and their consequent sterility, are identical to normal rainbows. Their appearance is that of what the Canadians call a "maiden fish", one which has not yet spawned and they never develop the secondary sexual characteristics such as the bright colors which normal diploid trout develop as they mature.
It seems some fisherman do not like triploids , this may seem like a stupid question but why do some dislike triploid trout stocking ?
I've grown skeptical of the triploid claims as well as downright dismayed by the game departments stocking program.
As Preston explains triploids are expensive to produce. When department budgets shrink I think most would agree if you are going to go to all the trouble you might as well be smart about how you treat these fish.
Game Department Stocking Program Fiasco: I remember as a kid seeing a photo of a 12 lb rainbow caught at West Medical in the paper. The caption mentioned the fish was likely incapable of spawning allowing it to reach this large size. I mention this because the concept of sterile fish and big growth has been around for years... long before biologists figured out how to economically produce them in hatcheries.
So the appeal is simple. If the fish survive long enough, they can get really big. As fisherman of course we all like the idea we might catch a steelhead-sized fish on any given cast.
This is where the game department blows it! Obviously the key to trips being worth all the time and money is when they grow big. A ten inch trip and a ten inch diploid are sporting wise the same fish (except one costs many times more to produce). The key is when the diploids are maturing and dying out and the trips are eating and getting bigger, only then does the trip begin to rise in value.
A logical person would then see the simple challenge. How to introduce trips to a lake so they can grow to this big size.
Unfortunately the game department cops out. They grow these fish to a modest size (typically 14-16 inches) and then release them during the height of the fishing season each spring. These fish are dumb, so to speak, only having grown up in a hatchery. They are easy prey for birds and fisherman. The put-and-kill lakes these fish are released in to are quickly cleared of these fin-ravaged hatchery zombies.
Additionally, the game department makes it even worse by telling fisherman when and where they stocked these dumb fish. Handling mortality is high as even when released it is not uncommon for these fish to be caught multiple times in a short period.
Sadly most of these expensive fish end up on fish stringers or lake bottoms long before they reach "trophy" size. If the game department wants the spin fishing crowd to catch 14-16 inch fish instead of the usual ten inchers, they don't need trips to do this. The growth potential is wasted.
It would be like if you had a 100 young bull elk that had been engineered to grow gigantic antlers. Instead of releasing in the wild, you let them out on I-5 during rush hour. Sure a few make it, but in spite of your efforts not because of it.
What the department should do is stop publishing the release dates, stop releasing them in spring right before angling pressure is highest, and instead planting these fish in locations and times when maximum fish survival is ensured.
Published studies: This is where I'm skeptical the trips are doing what they are supposed to do. Take Lenice as an example. Trips have been planted in these lakes for years, so we should see by now a good number of abnormally large trout. I'm simply not seeing it. Heard any reports of ten plus pound fish being caught there? Any pics?
The department should have real data on the success rate of trips in lakes. They need to fin clip or otherwise mark these fish and study them.
I know this is turning in to a novel so I'll stop. But I am highly skeptical of the survival rate and stocking methods of trips.
Thank you for the genetic lesson that is more than I hoped for. I thought I read some ware they are raised in farms for market is that true?
People seem to go in a feeding frenzy over these things. It's funny how much more crowded a lake will get when guys have a shot at catching a trout that is just a few inches larger than the normal planters. I use this list to see places I want to avoid.
The best display I saw of this fishery was several years back when they used to plant a local year round lake near skid-row woolley. Once word got out the truck was coming all the locals would crowd the dump site in anticipation. As soon as the truck showed up they had at it. With all the fish pooled up in a 100 sq. ft. area, guys would get their 5 fish limit in no time. Then they would sit around the launch for 3 hours bragging about how they caught their limit in 10 minutes. Seemed like a complete waste for a fish that was designed to provide "trophy" fishing.
Ahhhhhh, Clear Lake. WW's home if memory serves me correctly.
By the way if you look at the list Clear Lake is still on it.
WDFW sees trips as a way to sell Opening Day licenses, period. The department sees it as a cost-effective way to boost license sales as the opening day people really like them. A very small percentage go to Selective Gear Rules lakes and even fewer go to C&R lakes. I have argued for more to go in SGR and C&R lakes but haven't had much luck.
If you want more triploids in SGR or C&R lakes, post something here and I'll pass the comments along.
It would be nice if the state could use the long lived triploid rainbow strain that Saskatchewan has in Lake Diefenbaker. 43 pound trips would sell a whole lot of fishing licenses here.
hmmm Ive done quite a bit of reading on crane prairie through odfw and the bio's that suggest what happens on this lake . the large mouth bass had taken the lake over from the late 1980's till the early 2000's ! the average large mouth at the time being in the 4 to 6 pound range !!!
crane prairie rainbows were almost wiped out untill about 2004 when odfw started a program of brood stock trout planting and growing these brood trout to 10 inches or so , so the bass couldn't eat them . and stocking i think in the fall so they would over winter and be large 17 to 21 inches the next summer ! now what happened is it only took maybe 3 years and the trout took the FOOD BASE OVER , now the bass only average 1 1/2 to 2 pounds ! they do plant triploids now , at least last year anyway . i don't know how long they have been doing this , but this lake has tons of food ! the trout in my avatar is only about 24 inches long and is a hatchery fish from the cranebow brood stock program that grew that big very fast ( two inches a month ) because of the awesome food base this lake has . ( crane is almost 5 square miles of water with three spring rivers dumping in and i dont know how many under water springs and mostly only 9 to 10 ft. deep to make one of the riches insect habitats in the united states )now if you took a smaller less fertile lake and stocked it full of triploids , that has native population of trout - they could take over the food base very fast and if the fish did not have enough food start feeding on native trout smolt !
the change at crane prairie was fast once they figured how to keep the fingerlings from being eaten . the trout took the lake over in just a few years . maybe this is why wdfw bio's do not want to plant a lot of triploids in some of the best native trout lakes in washington ! even though they would not spawn with the natives to weaken the native stock but could just plain eat them out of house and home ! just a thought !
Kind of annoyed to see they're still putting them in Merill.
The more I read about Crane Prarie the more I want to make the 400+ mile drive from Whidbey Island.
The problem, according to a department biologist, is that the trips eat the dips fry plants. Thereby, making it very difficult to maintain an age class distribution that works for a quality fishing experience.
So the solution becomes to plant 10-12 inch fish like the example at Crane which is expensive.
However, the lake has to be very productive so there is enough "feed" to maintain the larger fish populations.
So you get lakes with very few large fish and everybody complains about the fishing.
Well, that's the story I am sticking with!!
On the other hand, I would love to see a few trips thrown into small lakes and ponds. They would probably get poached and fished out quickly, but it would be a cheap thrill if you were there are the right time.
Having caught both 16 inch trips and dips out of the same lake. It was no contest....a 16 inch trip peeled line.
The problems with Dry Falls a few years back were the result of trips and their stocking.
send a pm i can give onfo if your interested , it would be worth a week trip . if you went in may you could be fishing for trophy browns in wickiup in the morn and fishing trophy cranebows at 10 on crane ! hope to here from you !
It won't be this year Fishcentral, as I'm headed to BC in May, but I don't forget offers for fish intel. Thank you and you'll hear from me.