Tube Intruder Help.... Please

Discussion in 'Fly Tying' started by Jeff Dodd, Dec 26, 2010.

  1. Jeff Dodd Active Member

    Posts: 1,566
    Langley, WA
    Ratings: +349 / 0
    My first attempt at tubes and my first time tying an Intruder.

    Received 4 colors of intruder Ostrich for Christmas and attempted to emulate the flies posted on this board and the general approach explained on various youtube videos. Bad pictures attached below

    Questions:
    tying in the round with marabou and ostrich. Is it best to tie individual groups all the way around the tube? I made one attempt at ostrich herl in dubbing loop and it did not work well for me.

    Do I have way too many featehrs on this fly?

    I have garage sale marine mammal fur (I think that's what it is). I used it in dubbing loop but it's buried inside marabou and ostrich. Is this a waste?

    Please critique this fly so I don't wase more materials. This fly is pretty ugly and I hesitate to tie more before I get HELP.

    Thanks
  2. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,396
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,355 / 9
    Jeff, I'm here to help, but unfortunately I won't be of much help at all. That fly will fish for sure. I like the amount of material and think it looks nice for a first tube intruder. I like the profile, sparkly shank and material in bulk under the ostrich/streamer feathers to flare them out. I like the fur/feather collar that will puch a bunch of water around and put some "come and get it" action into the ostrich and streamer feathers.

    I have begun to hold materials with a Pettijean Magic Tool to insert just the cut ends into the dubbing loops. In the absence of one of these, perhaps a chip clip would hold the stuff in a tolerable method. Barring that, waxing your dubbing loop might hold your ostrich herl peices as you insert them one at a time. After you get them inserted, however you manage to do it, you can take time to trim the butt ends pretty close to the thread loop. I have seen guys take the herl off the stem in segments, say six herls, leaving them attached to the stem by removing it with an xacto knife. Insert this into the loop, pull it tight and then trim that stem fragment away.

    View attachment 37417 View attachment 37416

    I was tying some intruder types on my nor vise last night. Not thinking that mine look any better than yours, in fact, if you hate yours so much, I know where you can send them! That fly will fish.
  3. Matthew Gulbranson Resident Swinger

    Posts: 1,733
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +47 / 0
    I am no intruder expert either, but one thing I try to stay away from in intruders is marabou. The problem I find with using marabou with intruders is when it's wet, it will lay down flat. So any nice dubbing loop of material you put behind it will just get covered up. You did use it sparsely, which is a good idea. The idea is for there to be a lot of movement with not much material, therefore it will sink easier and also be easier to throw. I like rhea, amherst and schlappen with some grizzly wings for my 'bugs', but the material is expensive. I attached a bad picture of one.

    These days I don't fish as much, so I end up tying more. It's nice to have a pretty fly to look at when I walk by my tying desk, as it might be a while before it sees some water.

    Bottom line is: that fly you tied will catch fish, there is nothing wrong with it! I would fish that fly with confidence! Have fun at the vice experimenting, as that is what makes it fun. I always am not that disappointed when I lose flies, because that just means I get to tie more :D
  4. Jeff Dodd Active Member

    Posts: 1,566
    Langley, WA
    Ratings: +349 / 0
    Great looking flies Mumbles and Matthew. I'll keep tying and working to implement the tying tips you've both provided. Maybe look into amherst, schlappen and rhea to add to the mix.
    Thanks!
  5. Bob Jones Still truckless now farther away

    I'm having fun just watching there's too much that I'm beyond doing now. but I get a kick out of seeing what you guys can do or will try to do. Keep it up nothing you can do will get as bad as mine untill you get in this shape. There are things I can do to get better but I'll be starting too late I know to improve a lot. but I fish what I tie when I get to fish because they work even if they're bad. I guess the fish aren't critics. Mumbles you're going to have so many flies tied up that the girls will have them to use for years after you quit tying. maybe you need to think about opening your own shop just flies. Have fun guys I'll go back to my mess. Jeff mine make yours look like they're ready for the beauty show. how's that for a critic.
  6. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,396
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,355 / 9
    I've been know to hand over a fly or two to interested folks. More importantly, I'm a shitty caster and can find a multitude of ways to lose flies. If the girls get them, that is better than the bushes, trees or snags.
  7. Jeff Dodd Active Member

    Posts: 1,566
    Langley, WA
    Ratings: +349 / 0
    OK- Wife talked our daughter into watching X Files with her... so I'm tying again.

    Intruder w/o Maribou this time. Left too much room at head so I added eyes and twice as much hackle as I wanted....

    New mistakes this time around and I'm sure I don't have the copper tube mounted properly in the Nor-Vise, because it spins at inopportune times.
  8. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,396
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,355 / 9
    I'm still sticking with I like it for this one too. I'm not a big fan of the eyes, but I'm trying to tie more without eyes and let the sink tip get the fly down. Not sure that is a wise move, but it is a move. I see that you've got a slight gap in the tube adapter, I start all of mine with it flush and crank that thing out until there is no movement. Sometimes during the tying of the fly I'll note it slip or spin slightly and I add another quarter turn. If you are tying them on the copper or aluminum tubes I think you can put a lot of tension on them.

    What is that long wispy blue fiber material that you added to this one?
  9. Jeff Dodd Active Member

    Posts: 1,566
    Langley, WA
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    Mumbles, thanks for the input and tips

    The eyes were added because I left too much space at the front of the tube... so I tied in bead chain eyes to take up space. It's all about recovery, right?

    I did't read the instruction for copper tubes. This HMH tube has is copper with plastic insert. Norm's mandrel fit inside the plastic. I pinched the copper between the vise tip and the red bead, then cranked the tip out to snug up the copper tube. Somhow, it would loosen while tying and begin to spin. Any thoughts on this Mumbles?

    The wispy fiber looked green on the hide. I suspect it's Polar Bear, but not sure. (translucent and easy to work with) This time I tied the marine mammal (Polar Bear?) in as a wing around the circumfrance of the fly rather than in a dubbing loop. The underfur I mixed with dark dubbing and finished off the head direct dubbed to the thread.
  10. Jeff Dodd Active Member

    Posts: 1,566
    Langley, WA
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    Now that I look at these 2 flies, I don't like the cheap hackle I used in both front and back stage. I palmered the webby part around of the feather. (Charturse in this fly) Should I leave that out and find a different material? I would like suggestions on what to place between the cheneille and the long ostrich fibers.

    Thank you.
  11. Jamie Wilson Active Member

    Posts: 964
    Arlington WA
    Ratings: +91 / 0
    You could palmer some hackle on the silver body - it would look/work cool
  12. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,396
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,355 / 9
    Jeff, I find that as I wrap the tube I often will need to re-tighten the tube by backing the threaded cone fitting away from the tube adapter. I think I end up compressing the plastic enough until it holds in place. I might not be using it properly but I find myself adding a quarter turn to tighten it a time or two per fly.
  13. Jergens AKA Joe Willauer

    Posts: 2,141
    Twin Bridges, MT
    Ratings: +19 / 0
    I would use more ostrich herl personally, and check out this video, it's a Howell style intruder, but same difference:
  14. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,396
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,355 / 9
    Holy crap Jergens, that is a super fast tutorial and I like that fly. I've never put in a tail clump like that and also never just palmered it on the head. I like that one a lot and will try to do some in that style at my next vise session. What would you do if you were not adding weighted eyes? Tie in plastics? Skip them, or tie in weighted eyes anyway?
  15. Jeff Dodd Active Member

    Posts: 1,566
    Langley, WA
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    Oh yeah, that's a nice link. I looked around the skagit masters site but never found that vid. Thanks Joe.
  16. Jergens AKA Joe Willauer

    Posts: 2,141
    Twin Bridges, MT
    Ratings: +19 / 0
    I'd just skip them if it were me Mumbles, but if you notice, all of the Ward and Howell intruders have them, and probably for good reason. That being said, I tie intruders, but rarely fish them.
  17. Steve Saville Active Member

    Posts: 2,482
    Tacoma, WA
    Ratings: +312 / 1
    If you're tying on a tube and leave too much tube at the front, couldn't you just cut the tube shorter, providing you didn't cover it with thread?
  18. Jeff Dodd Active Member

    Posts: 1,566
    Langley, WA
    Ratings: +349 / 0
    Good question Steve. This tube was copper and I considered cutting but chickened out and added eyes. Can you cut copper tubes w/o squashing the tube end?

    Regarding copper tubes:
    So far I don't enjoy tying on copper tubes. The tubes I have push the length limits of my nor-vise and still want to turn while I am tying. If the Nor Vise tips were reverse threaded it would eliminate the problem I suspect. Thread torque applies enough pressure on the vise tip that it screw the tip back into the vise. One this starts the tube will spin, usually while palmering or whip finish or another inopportune time.

    Possilby I tie with too heavy a hand.
  19. Steve Saville Active Member

    Posts: 2,482
    Tacoma, WA
    Ratings: +312 / 1
    I think you coud roll the tube with a knife on top and cut through the copper if you did it gently. I would also try to find a small dowel to insert in the tube to keep it from crushing. You may have to sand it down a bit. I'd try it with a section of tube just to find out. Try using a razor type knife like a drywall knife or retractable blade utility knife. It won't do much for your blade but it may work once in a while when you make a mistake.
  20. Paul Huffman Lagging economic indicator

    Posts: 1,414
    Yakima, WA.
    Ratings: +130 / 0
    Jeff - sounds like you and I are both at the same spot, trying to figure out if tubes can help, and how to tie intruders. http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/board/showthread.php/73588-Pros-and-cons-of-tying-on-tubes

    What I'm trying to figure out now is what kind of hackle to I use on the "wings". The new wife got me a purple dyed grizzley neck, but it seems like most of the hackles long enough are too broad. Are saddle hackles better? Can you get by with #2 saddle patches since you don't need them to be dry fly quality with very little web?